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Author Topic: Which is statistically the best of these two options?  (Read 1264 times)

Sutremaine

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Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« on: March 23, 2010, 06:59:18 pm »

I have a two-step repeater and a lot of spikes.

Either I can attach them all to one of the pressure plates and have the whole corridor trigger every 202 ticks, or I can attach half the spikes to one plate and half the spikes to the other and have half the corridor triggering every 101 ticks.

Originally I thought the second would be better since the spikes trigger twice as often (leaving the enemy less time to walk through), but there's half the chance that the enemy will be on the same tile as the triggering spike (and a not-insignificant 1/8 chance that they'll evade three spikes).

Is this as simple a decision as it seems, or is there some crazy maths thing I'm missing?

(The question is somewhat academic now as enemies completely ignore the short spiked path in favour of the much longer wagon path. The elven caravan takes the short path just fine, and no, I gave them a trade liaison and therefore have no reason to kill them.)
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JoshBrickstien

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 07:54:28 pm »

I would go for the entire corridor. As long as no time is sacrificed to do it, it's a greater chance to hit them with 50 spikes, than 25, no?
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LordBucket

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 02:44:30 am »

Either I can attach them all to one of the pressure plates and have the whole corridor trigger every 202 ticks, or I can attach half the spikes to one plate and half the spikes to the other and have half the corridor triggering every 101 ticks.

If I understand your question, I would expect all spikes going together would be the safer choice. For example...what if an orc is walking through the corridor at roughly the same rates as the spikes are cycling? They could potentially get through without stepping on any of them.

beekay

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 04:49:16 am »

TECHNICALLY, it would be more reliable to trigger the entire corridor at once.

But practically speaking, staggered spikes looks way way more awesome and you should totally do that.
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Kav

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 09:06:51 am »

beekay's method looks awesome and is less safe. Therefore, it is more fun and thus the correct choice.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 11:06:38 am »

Staggered spikes it is then.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Garrie

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 05:00:50 am »

gotta love a game where the best defence solution is the one that

lets some of the enemy through, but
looks cool
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Peewee

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 08:06:28 am »

...
I was pretty sure that when spikes were UP, their tiles aren't pathable (they act like walls).

IF that's the case, it's more efficient to checkerboard them, because enemies will always be standing on a tile with a spike about to stab them, but they will also always have a path, so they keep coming in.
Checkerboard is also more dangerous, because your dorfs would always have a path to that -cave spider silk sock-

More research is required.

Of course, the best solution is magma, because magma traps are self cleaning.

Quietust

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 08:54:10 am »

I'm pretty sure raised spikes do not block movement.
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Shades

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 08:56:38 am »

gotta love a game where the best defence solution is the one that

lets some of the enemy through, but
looks cool

Isn't looking cool always the best? :)
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Firnagzen

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 09:09:59 am »

I'm pretty sure raised spikes do not block movement.

They don't indeed. On the other hand, building a x-step wave repeater, where x is the number of tiles of the corridor, to trigger the spikes is far more awesome looking, despite the enormous impracticality.
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Shades

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 09:35:15 am »

They don't indeed. On the other hand, building a x-step wave repeater, where x is the number of tiles of the corridor, to trigger the spikes is far more awesome looking, despite the enormous impracticality.

I'd go with x/2 - step wave repeater so you have two waves rippling down the corridor.

Although If anyone wants to do a game-of-life simulator and hook the spikes up to that I'd consider it a win.
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Peewee

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 09:51:29 am »

Ok. I was thinking of a floor-hatch or bridge checkered pattern, then.

Anywho, you should figure out how far the gobs walk, then put a single spike trap or a single row of spike traps where they should be, triggered via pressure plate.

precise timing ftw?

Satarus

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 03:18:00 pm »

I'd say the all of them at once.  That way you garentee 100% hit rate every 202.  If they alternate, some enemies will not be standing on the activated spikes.  Some may be lucky and avoid several of the spikes each 101 steps.  Sure you'll have some get hit by each iteration, but do you want to take that risk?
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vyznev

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Re: Which is statistically the best of these two options?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 04:31:46 pm »

I was pretty sure that when spikes were UP, their tiles aren't pathable (they act like walls).

IF that's the case, it's more efficient to checkerboard them, because enemies will always be standing on a tile with a spike about to stab them, but they will also always have a path, so they keep coming in.
Checkerboard is also more dangerous, because your dorfs would always have a path to that -cave spider silk sock-

Of course, the best solution is magma, because magma traps are self cleaning.
...now I'm wondering if it's possible to set up a checkerboard magma fall trap.

I think it is.  One way would be to have two alternating sets of screw pumps pumping magma onto alternating tiles of a 2 tiles wide corridor.  Using gears to toggle them on and off wouldn't work if they were all on one z-level, though, since they'd transmit power to each other.  You'd have to either stack them on two z-levels or use hatches on the input tiles to toggle them.  Alternatively, you could perhaps have only one set of continually running pumps, but use hatches over the corridor to divert their output.

It does occur to me that it would be much easier to skip the checkerboard pattern and just have magma falling alternately down the two sides of a 2 tiles wide corridor.  Or even alternately down two separate corridors.  Or just intermittently down a single corridor.

But damn, a checkerboard magma shower would look cool. ;D
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