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[Tilla]

Itnetlolor: Almost everything you said up there is completely uninformed or blatantly a Republican talking point. Little if no stem cell research is from fetuses anymore, the current bill does not include ANY funding for abortions whatsoever are just small examples of the complete falsehoods of your statement.

[kuro_suna]

With the passing of this, morality will be none more than a passing nightmare to the nation, and there will be no limits to what can be researched, how the "materials" will be acquired (Stem cells anyone? Those are usually made/researched from the remains of aborted fetuses (whole babies), some of them almost complete children. Quicker progress, but monsterous process.

No,

Embryonic stem cells are never allowed to divide more than a few dozen or so times. If its a almost complete child its not made of stem cells anymore.

[kuro_suna]

[Tilla]

There are now known FAR better sources of stem cells than embryos anyway, including Umbilical Cord Blood from new mothers and wisdom teeth.

[sneakey pete]

Summary:
Rise of Internet -> 4chan
Funded abortions -> careless youth (sexually) and possible "behind the scenes" genocide (One said "out there" theory. Slow process, but keep the numbers in check until a "big reveal".)
Social Virtualization (certain ero games and such) -> lower social interactivity / greater dangers to society (I know, but it's among the listed possibilities)
Better healthcare -> more youthful (as well as young-minded adults) recklessness
Automation -> quality control (to better the income of the producer at the expense of the consumer)

The list goes on. It's simple, think up any kind of advancement, and think of the social consequences in which morals are involved. Take it to the most extreme; and now you have a bad-case scenario. If you can top that off, then it's a worst-case scenario.

your list -> full of crap.
Internet is used for more good, and well, anything, than harm.
Teens have, and will, always be careless. Trust me when i say that teens don't think "oh no, i couldn't get a free abortion", nor would think "oh yay i can get a free abortion". it is the last thing on their minds.
Society doesn't seem to be becoming less interactive. 20 years ago the nerdy guy sat in the library and read books. now he can go online and talk with people who interest him etc. And despite the whole fear of it somehow impacting people, i have seen 0 evidence that it is effecting any disprortinate number of people who i've been growing up with/around.
Young people have always been reckless to. We have free healthcare here, yet i don't see people always going around doing stupid shit to the level of, say, jackass. Maybe, just maybe, its your culture that causes that kind of thing to happen.
Perhaps automation might not make every single thing as good as a human could make it with their hands. but that's assuming that the particular human your hiring actually gives a crap, or isn't having a bad day, or has some kind of sickness etc. Machines might not make stuff as good, but it is good enough. Eg, having a pot made accurate down to the mm isn't really going to kill you either way.

I think your just being a little cynical here (and that's coming from me, a cynic)...

[RavingManiac]

Universal healthcare as it stands is a hazard in the making. First off, what will happen when you give reckless people the same care as people that need some serious help? Ever watch Jackass? Now they'll be everywhere. Stack atop that, with abortions being funded by the government "backed up" by those against abortions is just asking for a civil war making the Republicans the bad guys, along with just about every other conservative (again, I'm as neutral as you can get; and even I can see this as a possibility of happening). "As technology progresses, morals decline." is a statement I recall my grandmother stating some time ago, and it's got a haunting feel to it now.

With the passing of this, morality will be none more than a passing nightmare to the nation, and there will be no limits to what can be researched, how the "materials" will be acquired (Stem cells anyone? Those are usually made/researched from the remains of aborted fetuses (whole babies), some of them almost complete children. Quicker progress, but monsterous process. This will be funded by those entirely against it; and more supporting alternative methods which are just as effective.). Follow along with that, the reckless youth and the lack of proper sexual education and all sorts of things related (teen pregnancies and etc.) and declining morals throughout the media and society; this can get ugly fast. Plus, just in case many "out there" fears are true; we're dying from the inside, and passing this, although with healing results in the beginning... Well, venom is a funny thing.

Okay, sure, our economy will begin to balance out and all sorts of people will be fixed up in hospitals, but you gotta remember, doctors and pharmacists are human too, and just in case they get a massive pay-cut as a result of this as well, alot of people will get screwed over big time through all sorts of prejudice and etc.. Ranging from the doctors themselves, and especially the patients.

We'll have a universal healthcare system which everyone will be taken care of, and live a longer life with minimized sacrifice. But as I usually feel about free things, "what's the catch?" is always one of my first questions. At what real cost is this universal health care really? Why it's delay to act (until November)? Why did the Democrats need to wangle an easier way to "Yay"? Why so much insistence and power behind this bill?

Personally, I have a reeeeeeeeeally bad feeling about this, and I'm going to do what I can to dodge this giant ball of crap and stay away from that really fast windmill. My bad feelings have been proven right so many times, I think I have right to get paranoid now.

Universal healthcare is not a new and unpredictable policy. The United States of America is not the first nation to have universal healthcare. Until recently, it was, in fact, the only industrialized nation in the world without it.

In the rest of the industrialized world, universal healthcare works fine. I do not see why it should be any different in the US.

[Andir]

Universal healthcare is not a new and unpredictable policy. The United States of America is not the first nation to have universal healthcare. Until recently, it was, in fact, the only industrialized nation in the world without it.

In the rest of the industrialized world, universal healthcare works fine. I do not see why it should be any different in the US.

You do know this bill is nothing like a Universal healthcare, right?  All this is is enforced insurance and a few regulations.  People will still have to pick the level of their coverage (with a set minimum) and pay for it.  Yes, some people will get a break through taxes, but like I said earlier, you have to wait for a year before you get that money back through your tax return so that's less money to spend on things you need daily.

[dreiche2]

Can't help myself.

If we weren't out patrolling the world like some global police force and concentrated on national defence and populace it might work, but we'd have to contract the military and global aid spending quite excessively.  Doing that would gain a short term appreciation from countries around the world, but the first time someone was attacked and we were asked to assist we'd end up in another situation of military expansion and politicians would be screaming for more money and programs all over again.  We'd literally have to leave countries defenceless and the dictators and tyrants would begin their expansion.  Right or wrong, we've managed to keep conflicts at a minimum through military might, but it's fiscally killing us.

The world isn't some Saturday morning cartoon...


As for the deficit...

The 2009 U.S. military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world's defense spending combined

I mean, really, America?

Holy hell, that was epic.

Did you actually understand what that was about?

With the passing of this, morality will be none more than a passing nightmare to the nation

America, the one country in the world where universal healthcare is the road to hell.

[RedKing]

Universal healthcare as it stands is a hazard in the making. First off, what will happen when you give reckless people the same care as people that need some serious help? Ever watch Jackass? Now they'll be everywhere.

Do you honestly think "reckless" people consider the state of the healthcare system before doing something stupid? Do you think they consider ANYTHING before doing something stupid? No--that's why they're reckless. Moreover, how is this different from the current system? If I show up at the hospital with burns all over my body, are they going to ask me how I got them, and then modify the quality of treatment I receive based on my response? Doesn't matter if I got them trying to put out a house fire, flash-fry a turkey, or baking crystal meth--I get treated regardless. Also doesn't matter if I have insurance or not (at least up front).

Stack atop that, with abortions being funded by the government

Which they're not

"backed up" by those against abortions is just asking for a civil war making the Republicans the bad guys, along with just about every other conservative.

If you mean a cultural civil war, we're already at year 30+. If you mean an actual civil war, I seriously doubt many anti-abortion folks would actually be willing to take up arms for their cause. Those that already do, we have laws and prisons to handle them.

With the passing of this, morality will be none more than a passing nightmare to the nation, and there will be no limits to what can be researched, how the "materials" will be acquired (Stem cells anyone? Those are usually made/researched from the remains of aborted fetuses (whole babies), some of them almost complete children. Quicker progress, but monsterous process. This will be funded by those entirely against it; and more supporting alternative methods which are just as effective.). Follow along with that, the reckless youth and the lack of proper sexual education and all sorts of things related (teen pregnancies and etc.) and declining morals throughout the media and society; this can get ugly fast. Plus, just in case many "out there" fears are true; we're dying from the inside, and passing this, although with healing results in the beginning... Well, venom is a funny thing.

Cartoon science horror show characterization combined with slippery slope fallacy. Might as well tack on something about Obama breeding an army of Clone Troopers from fetal DNA to man his fleet of black helicopters.

Why did the Democrats need to wangle an easier way to "Yay"?

Really? This is a question? I can't fathom the gall of Republicans (and this isn't directed at you) who did everything in their power to throw up obstacles, drag out the process and generally obstruct like there was an Olympic medal for obstructing, then argue that the bill is obviously bad because the Democrats had to struggle and work the system to get it passed. Admittedly, with a 60-vote majority in the Senate for a while there, if the Democrats had the kind of party discipline that the Republicans do, they could have passed this in a week (and the Republicans would have screamed that they were being bullies and ramrodding legislature through a rubber-stamp Congress).

[G-Flex]

The funny thing about embryonic stem cells is that they're embryonic. Slight difference between an embryo and a "whole baby". Viable fetuses are a terrible source of them anyway.

Embryonic stem cells are generally retrieved from surplus in-vitro fertilization embryos. These are not fetuses, much less "whole babies".


There are two possibilities here. Either Itnetlolor is a troll, or he simply doesn't know enough about the subject - and worse, has all kinds of false information - that it's impossible for him to talk about it constructively without doing some research first.

[Jude]

Lol at stem cell research thing

As for healthcare being universal (which it won't even if this bill works as it's supposed to), one thing I'd highly recommend is still having people pay SOMETHING, even a small amount even if they're poor, for their health care. That makes them value it. When something is free people ignore it, they make doctor's appointments and don't keep them, they get expensive medications and then don't take them, leading to expensive complications, and so on. If people have to pay even a small co-pay, that will go a long way toward making sure people use their healthcare more responsibly.

And how is Jackass your example of people being expensive for the system? How about chain-smoking, laziness and bad eating habits? And then how about all the expensive ailments that are out of everyone's control and just happen to people because they're old? This whole right-wing notion of personal responsibility taken past its logical extreme is ridiculous.

[Eagleon]

And how is Jackass your example of people being expensive for the system? How about chain-smoking, laziness and bad eating habits? And then how about all the expensive ailments that are out of everyone's control and just happen to people because they're old? This whole right-wing notion of personal responsibility taken past its logical extreme is ridiculous.

Didn't you know? So long as they have a hospital waiting twenty minutes away from them with capable doctors and nurses that can maybe help them if they're not too busy with other people like themselves, people will ignore instincts against pain, dismemberment, injuries to their reproductive organs, possible impalement, electrocution, immolation, and death, just to get a cheap thrill on a power scooter. IT WILL BE CHAOS ONLY MASSIVE!

[RedKing]

So you're saying the Obama health care bill will make life resemble Dwarf Fortress?

WHY ARE ANY OF YOU OPPOSED TO THIS?? 

[Eagleon]

Just so long as the frame rates don't drop any further, else the people running it will get bored and start a new country.

"Your civilization has crumbled to its end."

[Phmcw]

"Your civilization has crumbled to its end."

I want to see this statement in game