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Author Topic: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME  (Read 17583 times)

Cheddarius

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2010, 04:34:41 pm »

I was skimming the thread and I saw "The girls are getting extremely overloaded with boner reports" and I was like wut
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EuchreJack

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2010, 04:35:13 pm »

The first boomer report works fine.  It's the second and subsequent "boomer time" that causes the girls to get overloaded.  It may have to do with the escalation of boomer attacks.  I also kept Nene at the Police HQ the whole time, and kept my phone on.

Sorry you did not get a better reception, I figure it was just the wrong venue.  I'd label this game as more tactical than a typical roguelike.

Oh, an idea might be to default the cellphone as recieving calls.  Then, instead of people complaining of not getting missions, they can complain of getting one-shotted when they try to engage boomers without hardsuits!  ;D

(I'm assuming a big problem on the TOME forum was people not reading the documentation, instead expecting this game to be just like TOME.)

Tutorial tip: The documentation can be accessed by pressing "?" (or shift "/" if you prefer, it is the same thing).

At present, if Mackie dies, you go the rest of the game without salvage. None of the girls can replace him. That will probably change at some point, but yeah...Mackie being paranoid is a good thing. He can die.

I had an idea on this.  Seems currently having more than one point in hardsuit repair is kind of useless.  So perhaps having 10 in hardsuit repair allows one of the girls to pick up salvage. 

Several benefits of this plan:
1) For story reasons, having Sylvia taking over/assisting her brother in salvage seems to make sense.
2) The setting of the limit so high ensures most players will still try to keep Mackie alive.
3) Hardsuit Repair is now very useful!
4) In the later game, the player will be able to have two or more people doing salvage (if everyone lives that long), thus allowing more boomers to be salvaged in a quicker interval.  This corresponds well with the girls being able to better engage multiple boomers at the same time as they advance (with each of them being able to destroy one or more boomer single-handedly)

EuchreJack

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2010, 06:07:23 pm »

Tutorial on Hardsuit Design:
Ok, I started up a new game because of the new version.  In this game, I kept Priss and Nene in their default starting locations.  I'll be using Linna to fight and Sylia to design the hardsuits.  Linna has already gained a level, and I put the skillpoints into evasion and marksmanship.  Sylia has also gained a level, and now has three points in hardsuit design, so she can do more than at the start.

*WARNING*
The below design is not perfect.  In fact, I later decided it did not suit my play style, and changed a few things.

Starting as Sylia, we approach the computer, and select "Design Hardsuits"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, we need to select Linna's Hardsuit, as she will do the fighting for me.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I plan on doing more than adding armor, I want to modify the very structure of Linna's Hardsuit.  I bought some structure from Heavy Industries, but before adding it, I need to check the modules so I do not take out anything I can not replace.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Whenever I remove structure, the components in that area are stripped out and returned to the pool.  As you can see above, the Microcline Computer is in the Endo (inner) torso.  It requires skill in both hacking and hardsuit design to install, so I can not touch the Endo Structure.  But I intend to make changes to the other parts of Linna's Hardsuit.  Here is what we start with:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

About the three structures: Steel is the basic structure.  It is strong but heavy.  Titanium is just as strong as steel, but it is half the weight.  Plasteel is lighter than Titanium, but not as strong (less hitpoints).  Also, Plasteel does not dissipate heat.  I chose to make the head, arms, and Exo Torso titanium, because these areas are typically cramped for space.  I use Plasteel for the shoulders, because I do not intend to place anything in the shoulders, and destruction of the shoulders will have no noticable impact on my hardsuit's fighting capability.  Basically, I make them lighter because I do not care about them.  Plasteel is also slightly cheaper than titanium.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next, we go to the module screen, althought going to weapons then modules is also ok.  Notice all the areas are clear.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I return the radio to the head, add an ECM Local I to the head, and place a Hydrolics II in the Right Arm.  The radio is just tradition, it can go anywhere I think.  The ECM Local I will make it significantly less likely for boomers to hit the head.  Since destruction of the head equals instand death, I thought this was a good thing.  The Hydrolic II will make melee attacks more powerful.  At the time, I thought it should be in arm that I intended the melee weapon to be placed.  I am not sure if that is true.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next, we go to the weapons.  No weapons installed!  We MUST fix that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I decided to add two bolt guns to the left arm, and spikes to the right arm.  The advantage of bolt guns and spikes are that they are low-power weapons.  However, they all do physical damage.  Plasteel armor only takes 10% damage from physical damage, but crumbles quickly under energy damage.  So plasteel boomers could be a problem, as we have no way of dealing energy damage, and I do not have enough armor to protect two hardsuits.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next, we check on armor.  No armor!  Boomers will destroy us!  Time to change that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I dump all 8 titanium plates I have onto the head.  The head is very valuable, and titanium plates are stronger than steel.  With the limited steel armor plates I have left, I place 4 on each arm, because I need the arms to effectively fight (I think my hardsuits can kick with working legs, but otherwise I need the arms because that is where the expensive and rare weapons are installed).  Legs get 3, because without legs we can not flee enemy boomers if we are losing.  Back gets two just in case we get hit there.  Three go to the Exo (outer) torso and two to the Endo torso, because the exo torso has to be destroyed before the endo torso armor will take damage.  I place a single plate on each shoulder.  Why one plate?  Because the way armor works, it only is destroyed if damage exceeds the armor strength.  Thus, one armor plate has some chance of protecting the structure underneith.  Plus, armor and structure can not be damaged in one hit, thus by adding one plate, that is one more turn that the structure will not take damage.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The reason for not using plasteel is simple...I did not have any plasteel plates.  If I did, then I could hedge my bets a bit by placing plasteel on one arm.  Plasteel takes very little damage from physical attacks, but crumbles under energy attacks.  Thus, by putting one arm in plasteel, I can be more certain one arm will survive the battle.  But that is probably an idea saved for when weapons are plentiful, which is not the case at the start!

Now to look at the overview of Linna's hardsuit.  You can tell she is not losing heat from the plasteel shoulders.  But no excess heat is gaining from the physical weapons we installed, so we do not need the shoulders to vent.  Important to note also is power.  The current power usage is less than the maxium, so the suit can function properly.  But with the weapons firing continuously, the suit does use more power than that provided.  We'll have to use the capacitor for that, and either offline one boltgun after some rounds of battle, or wait a few rounds to recharge.  Why is Field ECM zero?  Because Field ECM takes a hardsuit design of five...Maybe later.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After having Linna put on her hardsuit, I learned she could not fire both bolt guns with her current weapon fire scheme.  So, I pressed "F" (or "shift" and "f", if you prefer), to access the firing mode menu.  It is currently set to only fire the first bolt gun forever, never using the second.  BOO!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

None of the fire groups allow me to shoot from both slots of the left arm only, so I create a new firing group.  I should be able to fire both bolt guns in one round of combat with this new setting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just select the newly-made firing group, and press ESC, and we're done!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, I have a hardsuit that should function in many roles.  Both fast, melee boomers and slow, ranged boomers can be effectively fought with this design.

After using this design on my first boomer encounter, I decided to remove the hydrolic II and the spikes and focus on ranged combat.  My technique was to aim for the legs, and keep away once the legs were destroyed.  Melee is bad for salvage, as you can not aim your melee attacks, only ranged shots.  Salvage is helped by only destroying what you need to destroy in order to get salvage.

To repair your structure, bring the hardsuit back to the silk n dolls, and have Sylia design it.  Have her take out the damaged structure, then replace it.  Viola, the structure is repaired!  Do not do this with the endo torso!  Why the old system of the mecha repair looking at the structure did the repairs was removed I will not know.  Perhaps that was due to increasing hardsuit repair to two?

Two final questions:
What use is there for excess steel structure?
Will boomers escalate from class a to higher classes?

EuchreJack

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2010, 10:35:06 pm »

Hope nobody minds the triple-post, but this is a bug report.

First, does Mackie ever recover from his first salvage operation?  It has been like two days since his last run, and he still insists he needs more time.

Second, Nene is trapped!  What happened is she first attempted to take the elevator to the second floor in Apartment 1.  But she ended up in "an unrecognized place" full of blackness and no scenery.  So I had her call Sylia to change characters, then I had Sylia ask her to regroup at the Silk n Dolls.  Then, I switched back to Nene, send her to Apt. 1 again, tried the elevator again, ended up in a different "unrecognized area", this one apparently outside the apartment second floor.  No door, attempting to walk off the map tells me she bumps into a wall, and I can not leave.  So I call Sylia again to change charcters, who again recalls Nene to the Silk n Dolls.  Take back Nene, try the elevator again, end up in the same weird area as before (actual area, not the one full of blackness).  I decide to try save and reloading.  I do so, but when I get back Nene can no longer call anyone to switch characters.  Oh, she call call everyone else, but she can not change characters.  And thus ends this run.

Servant Corps

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2010, 12:59:12 am »

A question, do the hardsuits look like Power Ranger suits or Gundam suits?
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LordBucket

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2010, 04:40:30 am »

do the hardsuits look like Power Ranger suits or Gundam suits?

They actually much more closely resemble the hardsuits from Bubblegum Crisis. :P

Or if you'd prefer video, this clip shows all four suits in action. There's also some fairly impressive cosplay if you're into that kind of thing.

LordBucket

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2010, 04:44:49 am »

an idea might be to default the cellphone as recieving calls.

...ok, but why? A new player isn't likely to be able to take on boomers the first time Nene calls. An experienced player will know to enable incoming calls. What's the benefit of defaulting to on?

Quote
I'm assuming a big problem on the TOME forum was people not reading the documentation, instead expecting this game to be just like TOME.)

I think I just overestimated my audience. BGC has a lot of non-roguelike game concepts in it. I think a good number of ToME players are roguelike players, but not gamers. I mean, personally, I look at BGC and I think, "oh, yeah...hardsuit design with heat and power tracking. That's straight out of mechwarrior." "Oh, parts ordering via purchase order, stolen from XCOM." There's very little in the game that's new or original. But a great deal of it is totally new to roguelikes.

Quote
Seems currently having more than one point in
hardsuit repair is kind of useless.

Only because you personally haven't damaged anything other than steel or titanium structure. Repair skill requirements are identical to install skill requirements.

Quote
perhaps having 10 in hardsuit repair allows one of the girls to pick up salvage.

The plan was to allow anyone to perform salvage. It has not been implemented.


Quote
does Mackie ever recover from his first salvage operation?

...heshould. But as you previously pointed out, the timer is off by approximately a factor of four...though the actual variance will vary with character speed. Intended time to prepare is 4-8 hours, so in theory it's probably actually taking him between 16 and 32 hours to prepare, possibly more if you're spending a lot of time in fast-moving hardsuits.

If you're tired of waiting, fire up wizard mode and execute the following LUA command:

Code: [Select]
bgc_data.mackie_time_to_avail = 0

That should make him immediately available.

Quote
Nene is trapped!  What happened is

I am so far unable to reproduce what you've described.

Quote
ended up in a different "unrecognized area", this one apparently outside the apartment second floor.

...that I understand. The flight and falling-to-ground code is not well implemented. As is, it won't let you leave an apartment map unless you're on the ground floor. In theory all you should need to do is take the elevator back down. Since we're fixing problems via wizard mode, make Nene the active character and then try executing:

Code: [Select]
dun_level = 1

and then

Code: [Select]
player.leaving = true

That should teleprort you to the elevator on the ground floor.

Quote
Nene can no longer call anyone to switch characters.  Oh, she call call everyone else, but she can not change characters.

...and I don't see any reason for the phone code to be involved in any of this. Would you email me your savefile before you try the above fix? lordbucket at hotmail dot com.

Cheddarius

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2010, 08:59:19 am »

Maybe activate the phone, or suggest a tutorial, once players reach a certain strength/money?
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Zangi

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2010, 09:57:37 am »

do the hardsuits look like Power Ranger suits or Gundam suits?

They actually much more closely resemble the hardsuits from Bubblegum Crisis. :P

Or if you'd prefer video, this clip shows all four suits in action. There's also some fairly impressive cosplay if you're into that kind of thing.

I imagined the hardsuits the girls use to be bulkier.  Considering that losing the arm/leg/head...  looks to be quite problematic...
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LordBucket

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2010, 05:47:25 pm »

Quote from: Cheddarius
Maybe activate the phone, or suggest a tutorial, once players reach a certain strength/money?

Yes, a tutorial would be ideal to take care of things like that. But I think things like "make the majority of the game" have a slightly higher priority.

Quote from: Zangi
Considering that losing the arm/leg/head...
looks to be quite problematic...

Well, bodily damage isn't implemented, but has always been planned. But with four girls on the team, losing an arm or leg from one two of them shouldn't be the end of the world. Plus, cybernetic replacement limbs would be completely in-theme, so lost limbs will probably be more of an aesthetic concern than a game-breaking problem.

I'm sure it could spawn lots of entertaining (if whiny) dialogue, too.


Zangi

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2010, 05:59:10 pm »

Well, bodily damage isn't implemented, but has always been planned. But with four girls on the team, losing an arm or leg from one two of them shouldn't be the end of the world. Plus, cybernetic replacement limbs would be completely in-theme, so lost limbs will probably be more of an aesthetic concern than a game-breaking problem.

I'm sure it could spawn lots of entertaining (if whiny) dialogue, too.

Looking forward to it.  Cause just from that clip... losing an arm or head seems like a strong possibility....
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EuchreJack

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2010, 07:43:11 pm »

an idea might be to default the cellphone as recieving calls.

...ok, but why? A new player isn't likely to be able to take on boomers the first time Nene calls. An experienced player will know to enable incoming calls. What's the benefit of defaulting to on?

The benefit is that we get to hear about new players getting killed instead of being able to find missions.  After a girl or two dies, they'll read the documentation and buy armor.  In a way, it is more a joke than anything.

Quote
...and I don't see any reason for the phone code to be involved in any of this. Would you email me your savefile before you try the above fix? lordbucket at hotmail dot com.

Where exactly is the savefile stored?  I could never figure that out.  If it is too difficult to find, I'll email you the entire tome game.

Quote from: Cheddarius
Maybe activate the phone, or suggest a tutorial, once players reach a certain strength/money?

Yes, a tutorial would be ideal to take care of things like that. But I think things like "make the majority of the game" have a slightly higher priority.

Just change the opening screen to add, "Need help?  See EuchreJack's tutorial!", provide a link on the TOME page, and get back to designing the game.   ;D

Thanks for all the advice!  I'd better start pumping Sylia's hardsuit repair.  Then again, do modules get damaged?  I thought they just got destroyed.  I'll still need a little hardsuit repair for the plasteel structure.

Cheddarius

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2010, 08:07:35 pm »

You know, Euchre, that's true. It's like Dwarf Fortress. When you lose because you can't figure out how to load the game (admittedly DF has a lot of these things), that's annoying, and you're less likely to try to play again (that's why I stopped playing DF the first time; I remember going to the embark map, thinking it was the actual game, not being able to figure out how to play, thinking "WHAT IS THIS", raging, and quitting). When you lose because you get swarmed by 30 marksgoblins, that's awesome, and you want to play again.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2010, 08:26:01 pm »

Thanks, and to elaborate further, I honestly think that nobody can understand hardsuit combat against boomers until they lose a few girls.

Epic moments:

One girl died because I forgot to equip her hardsuit.
     Lesson: Wear Hardsuits.
One girl died because her head was blow off.
     Lesson: Protect the head.
One girl died because her torso armor was breached.
     Lesson: Flee while your legs still work if you're taking a beating.

Servant Corps

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Re: Let's Play Bubble Gum Crisis, a Module for TOME
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2010, 09:33:52 pm »

do the hardsuits look like Power Ranger suits or Gundam suits?

They actually much more closely resemble the hardsuits from Bubblegum Crisis. :P

Or if you'd prefer video, this clip shows all four suits in action. There's also some fairly impressive cosplay if you're into that kind of thing.

I saw that first link, and I can't believe how ugly it looks*. Wouldn't want to see cosplay.

*Then again, functionality is more important than style.
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