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Author Topic: SCRIPT FRENZY: It's own our personal Writing Arc.  (Read 16103 times)

Lofn

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2010, 05:56:48 am »

I'M GOING TO USE THIS AS THE MOTIVATION I NEED TO PUT MY SPRAWLING AND DERANGED COMIC DOWN ON PAPER

IT'S ABOUT AI AND CYBERNETICS AND HOW STUPID SERIOUS ARGUMENTS ABOUT PHILOSOPHY ARE

YEAAAAHHHH
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Dasleah

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2010, 06:26:45 am »

Ignoring Outcast Orange's bizzare attempts to demand I apologise for writing more than he cares to read and ThreeToe's reluctance to ban either of us two boneheads, it's on to more constructive things!

Quote
Lately, I've been trying to become a good writer, and to introduce realistic characters into my stories (and a kind of screenplay). And basically, when there is an introduction, everything's fine, but when the craziness of the plot starts kicking in, the character stops, and I don't know what he would do. The sources of the problem I see as my identification with the character, so, I am an antisocial person, who is used to relying on others' decisions in difficult situations, and the character is the same. Or I have a suspicion that it's just my anti-sociality, and so I know very few people to base may characters on. Am I right and what should I do?

From what I can interpret, the core of your problem seems to be that you just can't find a voice for your characters that isn't your own.

It's a common problem. Even the most insane of writers is only one person, and when called out to suddenly vomit forth the voices of dozens, if not hundreds of characters, can be a difficult thing. The first thing you've got to understand is that no matter what you do, every character will carry a part of you with them. That's just how this works - it may not be a part you like, a part you recognise, or a part you even realise, but every character that is ultimately born of you will be a part of you. This is not to say of course that every character is always going to be just you putting on an act in drag - it's just worth recognising that no matter how well you research or define a character, you're still the one putting words in their mouth, so it's still you at some point in the process.

Trying to identify with a character whose personality is wildly different to yours is difficult. Where most writing comes from the heart, raw emotion and thought spilled forth, when you come to doing this for someone whose thought processes are so damn alien to you, it can just ruin the entire flow and stop you dead in your tracks. This is the point where all the planning you should do be never actually get around to helps. This is where you get clinical.

The quickest way to get around this is to use character sheets. Take a piece of paper. Write down a quick list of things you'd use to describe a character - name, height, eye colour, hair style. Where they spent their childhoods. What they think of their parents. Any nervous habits and quirks they might have. Who their friends are. What their favourite colour is. What words they like to use, and what words they don't. Lists of words of things they are, and lists of words of what they aren't. Who they want to be. Who their heroes are.

You're essentially writing an autobiography questionnaire for your characters. But don't get all flowery and prosey - this is clinical, to the point. Bullet points and single words. Think of it as a survey.

And then go deeper.

Ask strange questions, like what their views on capital punishment are. What they would do if they got more change if they should have at a store. Or less. What their favourite smell is. How rainy days make them feel. Whether or not they like cutting the grass. Do they want children? Where do they see themselves in 10 years time? What's the one thing they're most embarrassed about? What have they always wanted to do? What's the thing they most regret in life?

By now you should have 3-4 pages of questions, most of them utterly bizarre. And this is where you start filling them in, one set for every character. But the important thing is, fill the same question out for each character at the same time. Four characters? Fill out Age, Age, Age, Age first, then Height, Height, Height, Height, etcetera - and then do one more, for yourself.

If you see a pattern emerge, stop. Between either your own character sheet and a fictional character, or between two fictional characters. And question that pattern - is the character meant to be like this? Is this just me in a dress? If they are short, why do they act small? Question and double-guess everything. And look around for inspiration - find characters that already exist and fulfil the dramatic purpose you're looking for and fill out a character sheet for them. Distil the entirety of their existence down to a few simple words, and use those words.

This is your safety net - this is your list of things that you know. The more you know about your characters, the easier it is to write them. Ideally you want to get to a point where you're not making things up on the spot but rather just reporting the facts. If you ever get stuck writing a character, then you go to these sheets - if the answer to your question isn't there, then you aren't asking the right questions, or lying to yourself about the answer you want to write.

Another method to good characterisation is to be an actor. Now, I've worked with actors. It is not normally a good thing to be one. But it sure as shit is handy. To write a character sometimes you've got to be the character. Close the windows and blinds. Shut yourself in a relatively sound proof room. Take a mirror, some clothing (this sort of thing is ideal to do in a bedroom) and what you need to write. A tape recorder helps, too.

And get physical.

If your character is meant to be tall, then stand on your tippie-toes and strut around. Are you a confident character? Jut that chest out. Oh yeah, you're hot shit now. Look at yourself in that mirror. Aren't you just the most handsome damn thing in the world? Oh yeah, the ladies love you. You're 6'5" of god's-gift to the female race.

How do you walk? How fast? What feels more comfortable to you - a shirt and shorts, or something more formal? How do you dress on a date? Does your leg hurt? How does that affect your walk? Is someone watching you - how do you change?

Basically this method is about letting your imagination define your physicality for a few hours. It's kind of like day dreaming, only you let your entire body go along for the journey. Eventually you'll get to the point where all the physical things will come to you mentally, and then your character will feel you through their lines and scenes.

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Half a year ago I was very heavily into learning screenwriting and I found a couple of very useful books about it and moviemaking in general at my library: Kevin Conroy Scott, Screenwriters Masterclass; Clifford Thurlow, Making Short Films. I think they can be as useful for quality writing, as for low-quality, first-draft writing.

The best book that I can recommend when it comes to scriptwriting - hell, any writing in general - is Screenplay by Syd Field. It is my bible and constant companion - it is older than your grandmother and a thousand times more insightful. And it's piss cheap, too. Even if you're only remotely interested in writing, it's worth every cent. If you're heavy into the theory and want more of a read, then pick up Story by Robert McKee. Both of these books are just fantastic.

I'M GOING TO USE THIS AS THE MOTIVATION I NEED TO PUT MY SPRAWLING AND DERANGED COMIC DOWN ON PAPER

IT'S ABOUT AI AND CYBERNETICS AND HOW STUPID SERIOUS ARGUMENTS ABOUT PHILOSOPHY ARE

YEAAAAHHHH

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE, WE GOT FUN AND GAMES
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 06:30:14 am by Dasleah »
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Pokethulhu Orange: UPDATE 25
The Roguelike Development Megathread.

As well, all the posts i've seen you make are flame posts, barely if at all constructive.

Supermikhail

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2010, 07:07:35 am »

Amazing. Thanks.

They mention Syd Field and McKee in Screenwriters Masterclass, and usually not favourably (or at least that they don't like to follow these authors' advice). Also they talk about character sheets. And as far as I remember, very few got to such depth as you suggest. Until your post, Dasleah, I'd thought that "Well, big writers don't do it, then I shouldn't". But then I realized that even in that book some writers do, and who knows, maybe I am OCD like that  :) I'll try to go deeper with character sheets now.

Hm, an afterthought. There is a different side to my problem: I've got a plot outline, and I know specific actions that the main character(s) should perform, but I don't have the minute detail of the character(s). Basically, he should perform some actions, but I don't know how to make his personality, so that he'll do them. Maybe the solution is to take ten different characters and put them into the situation, and if one of them does what I want, it's him...
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Davion

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2010, 09:38:55 am »

From experience, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to experience #5 on your list at any point while writing a script.

Also, fuck Story by Robert McKee. Blah blah blah here's a flowchart, blah blah blah I masturbate to Casablanca
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 09:40:51 am by Davion »
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Outcast Orange

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2010, 11:31:05 am »

tl;dr, and I know you're not going to read my impenetrable walls of text because that would be too hard: You're not writing a poem. Don't use linebreaks unless you need to.

Have a nice day.

I like my excessive linebreaks.
That is how I do things.
My thoughts are organized in a similar way,
 and I like my pauses to be more substantial.
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Willfor

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2010, 03:42:43 pm »

@ Supermikhail: I can see where Dasleah is coming from. I've been thinking lately that writing characters is like method acting set to paper. In that respect, writing and acting become sort of kissing cousins in each other's disciplines. Without a little bit of assuming another thought-process there could be no good character pieces, and without any character in writing actors would have less to go on. Though there's a lot of give and take. In novels you don't have to worry about how an actor would pull it off, but that can lead to fairly flat/lazy writing.

Neither medium demands the other, but I feel they work rather well together.
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Dasleah

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2010, 03:50:06 pm »

Amazing. Thanks.

They mention Syd Field and McKee in Screenwriters Masterclass, and usually not favourably (or at least that they don't like to follow these authors' advice).

Quote from: Davion
Also, fuck Story by Robert McKee. Blah blah blah here's a flowchart, blah blah blah I masturbate to Casablanca

haters gonna hate

But yeah, Field and McKee are the old dogs in scriptwriting education. I've found that they've fallen out of favour in recent years because people honestly just care less and less about the art of writing a script and bowing to the economics of it. McKee is very long winded - I don't think I've ever actually finished story - but I certainly recommend Field. I finished his book in like a day, and it's all very well written, to the point, and actually makes you think about what you're doing and more importantly, why you're doing it.

There's always going to be people who look at these things and go "what man, you can't tell me how to write a fucking script, it's art man, fucking PAPYRUS SIZE 12 ALL THE WAY BECAUSE IT REFLECTS MY TRUE INNER SELF" and they're always the people who go nowhere. Most of the things you'll learn as a writer will just come naturally through your own constant rejections and bad reviews - but it never hurts to have a book at your side that you can pick up and measure yourself against.

Quote
Also they talk about character sheets. And as far as I remember, very few got to such depth as you suggest. Until your post, Dasleah, I'd thought that "Well, big writers don't do it, then I shouldn't". But then I realized that even in that book some writers do, and who knows, maybe I am OCD like that  :) I'll try to go deeper with character sheets now.

You've got to realise that writing is hard. There's nothing wrong at all with doing the weirdest shit to give yourself what you need to get the job done. I find that character sheets are the most straightforward way to help flesh out characters, but it's ultimately what works best with you. Character sheets are great because once they're completed, they practically answer the questions you didn't think to ask when you read them. They give you a precise, clinical representation of that character's personality, so any unanswered questions should just flow, or at least be easily estimated by extrapolation.

Another thing I've done in the past is to record myself describing the characters - just a stream of consciousness describing who they are. Sometimes visualise the scenes they're in and what they're doing, what they're saying. The important thing to do here is to then transcribe it - the act of really listening to what you're saying can often be a real jolt and there are countless moments where I've gone "holy shit, that doesn't sound right at all. What they hell were they - I -  thinking?"

Quote
Hm, an afterthought. There is a different side to my problem: I've got a plot outline, and I know specific actions that the main character(s) should perform, but I don't have the minute detail of the character(s). Basically, he should perform some actions, but I don't know how to make his personality, so that he'll do them. Maybe the solution is to take ten different characters and put them into the situation, and if one of them does what I want, it's him...

Well, if it's not in the character's personality to do those actions, then they shouldn't be doing them fullstop.

Character defines action. Go back, define your characters, and then see if they're the sort of person that would logically do that action. If it's not something they would do, then don't let them do it. Write their reactions to that. Do they know that the action needs to be done, but they can't make themselves do it? How does that make them feel - angry, guilty, sad? Do they know what their inaction will do? Do they care?

If the action still needs to happen as part of the plot, then this is what secondary characters were invented for. There's nothing wrong with a character written specifically to perform an action your main character wouldn't, but there is something wrong with just that being their only personality attribute. Add the question that describes the plot point to your character questionnaire, and fill out the rest of it for them. A famous quote is "there are no such things as minor characters" but in the realm of practicality then you don't need to go into an insane amount of detail.

Just understand that if you get to a point like this, then there's either something wrong with your character, or something wrong with the plot point. It's easier to change the plot point, sure, but what kind of precedent does that set - that you're just going to remove all forms of conflict - and hence, drama, which is the core value at the heart of all writing - from the path of your main character?
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Pokethulhu Orange: UPDATE 25
The Roguelike Development Megathread.

As well, all the posts i've seen you make are flame posts, barely if at all constructive.

Os Q

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2010, 01:25:27 pm »

Quote from: Os Q
I'm thinking about an unofficial sequal to both "The Brain" and "The Crawling Eye" both obscure B movies (though the later was on MST3000)

SO ARE YOU IN OR NOT

*eyes go red*

Yes sir!

Giant Brain War! is a go
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Flaede

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2010, 02:16:12 pm »

Quote from: Os Q
I'm thinking about an unofficial sequal to both "The Brain" and "The Crawling Eye" both obscure B movies (though the later was on MST3000)

SO ARE YOU IN OR NOT

*eyes go red*

Yes sir!

Giant Brain War! is a go

hehehe
Fry Tricks the Big Brain

"I AM THE GREETEST! MUAHAHAHA! NOW I AM LEAVING EARTH FOR NO RAISIN!"

...actually, you can probably do better than that.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 02:24:51 pm by Flaede »
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Os Q

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2010, 03:52:22 pm »

lol, probably not!

I got lot's of ideas though, we'll see if they're any good written down, rather than as mental notes

(Big brain am winning again!)
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mendonca

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2010, 04:11:30 pm »

Go on then.

I'll join as I have:

1) No idea how to write a script
2) No idea how to write dialogue
3) A penchant for dreadful movies
4) Some free time in April

And I just generally buzz over the effort you are putting in to getting everybody else in to this whole thing, Dasleah.

SCRIPT FRENZY!!!
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Dasleah

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2010, 05:48:58 pm »

SCRIPT FRENZY!!!

*eyes go red*

Yes sir!

WELCOME ABOARD

9 days to go! C'mon, let's try and hit the even dozen on participants. What have you got to lose? There's no shame in 'losing' Script Frenzy, only in never starting it. Don't forget that you can also team up with another person and you still only need to do 100 pages all up - grab a friend!

And ask any questions you may have. I'll try and vomit forth advice and insight as much as possible, but remember that come the 1st of April, I'll be spiralling into madness and depression like the rest of you - not saying I won't update this thread as often as possible of course, but just that I'll be swearing a whole bunch more!
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Pokethulhu Orange: UPDATE 25
The Roguelike Development Megathread.

As well, all the posts i've seen you make are flame posts, barely if at all constructive.

Supermikhail

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2010, 05:19:36 am »

It works, Dasleah, your advice works! This night I was 4 people at the same time! ;D

While I don't want to lose track of my other story, I've come up with an amazing idea - what if I write a script for a prequel for the prequel of my story! Of course, like any decent prequel's prequel, it's going to consist of several unconnected stories, with no definite conclusion, and dialogue full of nerdy (um, not really) references. But I've got plots basically written out, and I imagine that making them into a screenplay is going to be a piece of cake!

So, if you're alright with it, count me in.
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mendonca

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2010, 01:34:07 pm »

So I dreamed up the basic characters, and some sort of plot mechanism to get the story going, whilst I was driving around with work today.

Basically its gonna be about an evil despotic sweatshop operator (sweatshop is on an island) using an army of clones to manufacture cheap goods for western tourists in the neighbouring holiday paradise.

(I'm thinking I might have to go with the Scilly Isles and Cornwall to keep shooting costs down ...)

Army of clones share a common consciousness (possibly due to an element of Ant DNA or some such marvelous shit like that) This knowledge needs to come out later, rather than earlier. The despot might not realise he has unwittingly engineered them with a 'hive mind' as it might introduce some gaping holes in the plot (I think I might have to accept some fairly large holes, but I'll try and avoid 'gaping' holes.)

Evil despot dies near the end

Some twist about the clones being the real evil ones, and the Evil Despot loving his sons, wanting to protect them etc.

Evil Despot: "I LOVED YOU AS SONS! EACH ONE OF YOU! I WANTED TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE DREADFUL WORLD OUTSIDE! ..."

Clone: "Father, you have given me life. Now, with my many minds and hands, I take yours."

Cue swarm of clones, ripping apart evil despot

Clones proceed to escape from the island via an unwitting heroines help, and onwards to the end of the world.


It basically writes itself ....
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Supermikhail

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Re: SCRIPT FRENZY: Or how I learned to shut up and just write.
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2010, 03:00:35 pm »

Hey, I've just found in Celtx an option for an audio play. I wonder, do we have a demand for such a genre? And if it is any different from writing a trite screenplay.
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