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[MrWiggles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey (possibly mildly NWS)

Oh is THAT why everyone talks about transexual hookers...

Anyway they seem like nothing American doesn't have, just that there are more of them for God knows what reason. In any case you can make the argument that transsexuals, hermaphrodites, even gays, etc. are another gender, but then there's so much range in psychology of people who are considered "male" gender that you could also start divying that up into multiple genders. At a certian point it just becomes hairsplitting and irrelevant to real life.

Also, I defy anyone to produce an example of a society where there was "only one gender."

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishōnen

[MrWiggles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey (possibly mildly NWS)

Oh is THAT why everyone talks about transexual hookers...

Anyway they seem like nothing American doesn't have, just that there are more of them for God knows what reason. In any case you can make the argument that transsexuals, hermaphrodites, even gays, etc. are another gender, but then there's so much range in psychology of people who are considered "male" gender that you could also start divying that up into multiple genders. At a certian point it just becomes hairsplitting and irrelevant to real life.

Also, I defy anyone to produce an example of a society where there was "only one gender."

So wait, you make a big point about 'no society has more than two genders' and then when handed some evidence go 'oh, well, I didn't mean THAT'?

Its called 'Moving the Goal Post', he has may have attempted to do an argument from antiquity and some argument ad populi.

He maybe be also arguing his own ignorance on the subject as proof of his position is proper.

[sonerohi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey (possibly mildly NWS)

Oh is THAT why everyone talks about transexual hookers...

Anyway they seem like nothing American doesn't have, just that there are more of them for God knows what reason. In any case you can make the argument that transsexuals, hermaphrodites, even gays, etc. are another gender, but then there's so much range in psychology of people who are considered "male" gender that you could also start divying that up into multiple genders. At a certian point it just becomes hairsplitting and irrelevant to real life.

Also, I defy anyone to produce an example of a society where there was "only one gender."

Starfish, should they rise up and seize their place.

Also, wiggles, that isn't an example of one gender.

[MrWiggles]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey (possibly mildly NWS)

Oh is THAT why everyone talks about transexual hookers...

Anyway they seem like nothing American doesn't have, just that there are more of them for God knows what reason. In any case you can make the argument that transsexuals, hermaphrodites, even gays, etc. are another gender, but then there's so much range in psychology of people who are considered "male" gender that you could also start divying that up into multiple genders. At a certian point it just becomes hairsplitting and irrelevant to real life.

Also, I defy anyone to produce an example of a society where there was "only one gender."

Starfish, should they rise up and seize their place.

Also, wiggles, that isn't an example of one gender.

Yes it is, its one gender identity. In its modern expression it stress androgynous behaviors and dress and speaking.

[bjlong]

See, this is why I was disappearing.  I'm actually not a raging feminist.  I just got into a particular side of an argument, and then realized I didn't particularly like being in that argument--the complexities are somewhat daunting, and I don't really want to get into yet another an idealism vs. realism brawl.  I overreached myself and got argumentative, rather than actually thinking >_>

It's fine by me, just that line sounded like "Aah! Run away from the scary man-beast!" rather than "Ok, I think I got too involved here." I'll see about reading those works sometime in the next year or so--I've got a lot on my plate already.

[Solifuge]

Traditional societies in which the third gender role was present had a well defined social space for the third genders, one that was apart from the men's spaces and women's spaces. They had their own gender roles, separate from both men and women. Furthermore, third genders had access to both men's and women's spaces, whereas the access of men and women to the other's social spaces was often restricted. Third genders continued to have a separate space and identity in the middle ages although their status went on diminishing.

Like masculine roles and identity, the third gender roles have changed drastically from the way they were perceived in the ancient world. For most of the middle ages, third genders were defined as males 'unable to penetrate women and procreate due to physical inadequacy.' This definition hinged on the view of the third genders as hermaphrodites, and was used to stigmatize the third genders and ultimately used as a banishment threat for men through which they were forced to conform to the marriage institution and to compulsory procreation.

It would appear as though I can blame my ancestors for yet more bigoted repression, close-mindedness, and institutionalized cruelty. Yay.

[Cheeetar]

I don't see the problem with allowing people to be whatever gender they want.

[Cthulhu]

Solution:  Change "Gender" on all government-issue thingamajigs to "sex"

Problem solved.

[Footkerchief]

Solution:  Change "Gender" on all government-issue thingamajigs to "sex"

Better solution: remove it entirely, it's more trouble than it's worth.

[Bauglir]

-snip-

[Realmfighter]

The government does not have a problem with spending to little money.

[Kitpup]

Solution:  Change "Gender" on all government-issue thingamajigs to "sex"

Problem solved.

I actually agree with this.

[Bauglir]

-snip-

[Footkerchief]

On the other hand, it really doesn't seem relevant to anything a government would be doing. Sex could plausibly be, however, if you want to get into things like health care and suchlike, so I wouldn't exactly see a problem with including it on forms.

I don't buy that reasoning at all.  Sure your sex is relevant to health care, but so are a whole slew of things that are never asked on government forms.  My drug allergies aren't on my driver's license, for instance.

[Bauglir]

-snip-