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[cdawg]

i dont about you guys, but i find rock crystal hard to find and often its not in a map at all, yet strange-mood'd dwarves ask for it all the time.  its basically a death sentence for whoever gets it most the time; I had to watch a legendary siege operator wither and die because I couldnt find any.  can we please take that requirement out, or replace with something different and more possible to fulfill?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Rock crystal is:
- Statistically easiest to find - its spawn setting is [ALL_STONE:100], that is, it's abundant in any stone layer. Or rather, should be abundant, if other features didn't overwrite it.
- Obtainable from startup - costs just 10 points. If you're worried about crystal glass in particular, 30 points for 3 pieces of rock crystal aren't all that much.
- Finally, it should be possible to trade for it... I think. Never actually tried though.

I don't think its spawn setting is geologically correct, but it's good from a gameplay perspective. With all the other gems it's relatively hard to find it, but never absolutely impossible.

If you're desperate about it, look for rock salt layers - it's got probably the least features of all stone layers, and thus it's more probable o find rock crystal-a-plenty there.

[Wahnsinniger]

Unless Toady's plan all along is that some dwarves will ALWAYS die during a Strange/Fey Mood, then yeah, the game really needs to check if you have said materials available first. It is pretty stupid that you currently HAVE to bring turtles with your party just in case some dwarves need it.

It wouldn't be so bad if you had time to actually request and GET it from a trade caravan, but neither moods nor noble mandates ever last long enough for that to be possible.

[PTTG??]

I turn off Artifacts in the init file for that very reason.
Once I get a fortress that can survive one or two spontaneous deaths, I will turn it back on.

[ November 25, 2007: Message edited by: PTTG?? ]

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by PTTG??:
<STRONG>I turn off Artifacts in the init file for that very reason.
Once I get a fortress that can survive one or two spontaneous deaths, I will turn it back on.</STRONG>

I did the same thing a while back. Up to around 100 pop at the moment and haven't found a reason to turn them back on.

[Metalax]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>- Obtainable from startup - costs just 10 points. If you're worried about crystal glass in particular, 30 points for 3 pieces of rock crystal aren't all that much.</STRONG>

It is? Was this added in 33c?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Yes, along with all other stones and gems. Depends on civ, of course, so you might not get it all the time, but it's there.

It also makes marble a little more "valuable", in a counter-intuitive sense, because it costs just 3 points per stone, as opposed to most other flux that cost 6.

[Densor]

My current fortress has no gems or sand that I've found so far (nor zinc, iron, fluxes, gold, platinum, lead, or nickel, but that's a bit tangential to the subject).  I've had one noble go crazy and die because I couldn't meet his demands and at least 5 dwarves die to strange moods I couldn't deal with due to lack of gems.  I don't really see it as a problem, as if I can't deal with a strange mood, I just assign two war dogs to the dwarf in question and make sure I have a coffin available for when he dies.  It's not game breaking, though it is a bit frustrating.  I think my 2nd duke is going to go crazy soon.  He has two mandates up currently, one for gold items and the other for "Make Large Gems", whatever that means.  I'm at 150 dwarves right now though, so I don't think the failed moods have been too much of a problem.

Maybe my mind would change if one of my legendary siege operator/miners got hit with a mood that I couldn't fulfill, but I doubt it.  I have 6 of them.

[Eiba]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>Rock crystal is:
- Statistically easiest to find - its spawn setting is [ALL_STONE:100], that is, it's abundant in any stone layer. Or rather, should be abundant, if other features didn't overwrite it.
- Obtainable from startup - costs just 10 points. If you're worried about crystal glass in particular, 30 points for 3 pieces of rock crystal aren't all that much.
- Finally, it should be possible to trade for it... I think. Never actually tried though.

I don't think its spawn setting is geologically correct, but it's good from a gameplay perspective. With all the other gems it's relatively hard to find it, but never absolutely impossible.

If you're desperate about it, look for rock salt layers - it's got probably the least features of all stone layers, and thus it's more probable o find rock crystal-a-plenty there.</STRONG>

Well, even the most common gem is really rare with so many of them. I've seen rock crystals but once while scouting dozens and dozens of potential sites using reveal.exe (for other stuff, primarily- but I always checked for rock crystal).

Also, you can only sometimes get rock crystal from the embark screen or traders, depending on if there's rock crystal in your home civilization, and even then you can only bring cut rock crystals which are useless for crystal glass.

Crystal Glass Moods are a death sentence most of the time.

[Durnheist]

The rock crystal you can take with you at start up is cut.  Problem is  only rough rock crystal can be used to make crystal glass.  Same thing goes for trading, you can trade for cut, but not rough.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Yes, which kinda undermines my statement.   I don't really see a reason why it's specifically rough crystals that are needed for glass....  since they're supposedly melted anyway...
Still, that's that I guess. Perhaps making it appear in veins will do the trick? Less common, but in larger numbers, like coal?

[mineditall]

it happens far too common

my first 3 fey moods in 32a were requesting crystal gems...
they all died a quick and painless death

[Sean Mirrsen]

Just to bring it to attention.

Rock crystal, like kimberlite, is broken in vanilla DF. Rock crystal can only be found in gabbro. Not even other igneous intrusive rock types have it.

So, if you need rock crystal, look for gabbro.

Kimberlite and diamonds are fixed by my diamonds mod.
I'm now working to extend it to fix rock crystal.