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Author Topic: Playing as Goblins?  (Read 1968 times)

Kamudo

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Playing as Goblins?
« on: March 15, 2010, 05:14:53 pm »

Can someone tell me, or direct me into the Wikipedia where I may edit the raws to play a Goblin fortress?

I recently played N3 and am really liking goblins, after playing Dwingvatt. >.>
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sunshaker

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 05:24:38 pm »

The Modding Forum below is the place to ask your questions.
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Kamudo

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 05:29:48 pm »

Kay, thanks. Moved it.
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Lisidadil - A story of one of my first forts.

The continual tale of survival in a harsh land of hate, Fun, betrayal, love, and maybe a random elf or two... If we're unlucky.

Phantom

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 05:44:30 pm »

In the goblin entry in Entity_Default in the raws, put [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] as the first line in the entry.
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sunshaker

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 05:51:18 pm »

If you can tell us what you want your goblins to be like we can try to help you make them that way. I've not played N3 so I really don't have a clue what you want or are looking for.
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Kamudo

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 06:01:24 pm »

So, if I make Goblins as [CIV_CONTROLABLE], I don't have to remove this from Dwarves?

And I'm not really sure if I'm looking for anything in particular. The goblins in that game were just so badass that I wanted to play as goblins on Dwarf fortress.

Is there anything you can suggest that will make it feel different than playing as Dwarves? Or do Goblins already have distinct civ features?
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Lisidadil - A story of one of my first forts.

The continual tale of survival in a harsh land of hate, Fun, betrayal, love, and maybe a random elf or two... If we're unlucky.

NecroRebel

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 06:23:55 pm »

Goblins won't be able to do some of the things dwarves can unless you do further modding. For one thing, they cannot eat things that aren't meat (except bones), since they have the [BONECARN] tag. From a quick lookthrough of their entity definition, it seems that they don't farm and won't be able to bring wood or plants on embark, and their caravans won't carry wood or plant products, including barrels and bins. Further, you won't be able to order gems from the goblin caravan, which should show up every season, nor will you be able to order steel.

Also, everybody else besides the goblins will be hostile towards you due to your [BABYSNATCHER] tag. I'm not sure what other effects that will have, but it will have that one. All in all, vanilla goblins should be slightly more difficult to play as than vanilla dwarves, since they're just like dwarves with fewer options, but not terribly difficult.
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Kamudo

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 06:30:13 pm »

Oh, thank you NecroRebel. That sums it up well. I'll just have to embark somewhere with a lot of fish and meat. And, [BONECARN] tag makes them eat bones? That's what it looks like you wrote.

So, Kobolds are still hostile as well?

Well, I'll just go give it a try then. Making things more difficult always makes things more Fun.
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Lisidadil - A story of one of my first forts.

The continual tale of survival in a harsh land of hate, Fun, betrayal, love, and maybe a random elf or two... If we're unlucky.

Kamudo

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 06:38:38 pm »

Okay, I edited in [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] on the first tab. When I check what Civs I have access to on it tells me that my Civ has NO TRADE. Does that mean the current civilization I have selected, doesn't have the ability to trade?

And yeah, I genned a new world.
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Lisidadil - A story of one of my first forts.

The continual tale of survival in a harsh land of hate, Fun, betrayal, love, and maybe a random elf or two... If we're unlucky.

sunshaker

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 07:02:14 pm »

A quick look at the raws says that the goblins as written don't have merchants or pack animals. you will need to add the following:

Code: [Select]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
[DIPLOMAT]
[DIPLOMAT_BODYGUARDS]
[MERCHANT_BODYGUARDS]

It also is probably a good idea to remove (because it might delay the merchants arriving until you have 80 population or substantial fortress wealth).

Code: [Select]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]

Or you could find the entry for beak dogs (in creature_standard.txt) and add either or both of the following

Code: [Select]
[PACK_ANIMAL]
[WAGON_PULLER]

and maybe [TRAINABLE]
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Kamudo

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 07:21:33 pm »

Where exactly under the Goblin Entity do I add the Code you provided?

I'm kinda a noob at modding DF.

I deleted the stuff you suggested.

Do the Tags need to be added into Beak Dogs in any specific place?

As for Beak Dogs, can I also bring them along at embark? Do they regularly breed, or do I have to edit them to breed and then slaughter them for meat?

I really wanna try to keep it as close to vanilla as possible, while still making some fixes for trading, and some pets and what not.
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Lisidadil - A story of one of my first forts.

The continual tale of survival in a harsh land of hate, Fun, betrayal, love, and maybe a random elf or two... If we're unlucky.

NecroRebel

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 07:25:25 pm »

Oh, thank you NecroRebel. That sums it up well. I'll just have to embark somewhere with a lot of fish and meat. And, [BONECARN] tag makes them eat bones? That's what it looks like you wrote.
I've never tried [BONECARN] creatures myself, but from what I hear, such creatures will indeed occasionally decide to eat a bone/stack of bones instead of "real" food. Apparently they'll also occasionally choke on it, so you might want to switch it to just [CARNIVORE] instead.

You'll have to learn how to manage livestock if you're going to play a carnivorous race, though. A couple of pieces of advice: first, meals are edible if they have even one edible part in them, so while your goblins won't eat roasts made from 4 tallow or plant products, even 1 meat used as an ingredient makes it edible. This means that you can stretch your food supplies by setting render fat and cook easy meals on repeat and having no stockpiles that accept tallow; your cook will take a fat, render it into tallow, then use that tallow and another ingredient (meat, hopefully) in the meal, which essentially just makes the tallow edible.

Second, embark with at least one breeding pair of large livestock animals if you can. Camels are the best common domestic animals, followed by cows and muskoxen, then horses, donkeys, dogs, and cats. If you can get your hands on a breeding pair of grizzly or polar bears, they're even better, though black bears are also quite good. Other creatures don't mature as quickly, so they're less reliable for making a suitable herd, are smaller so don't yield as much food, have a lower modvalue so are less valuable, or don't breed.

Quote
So, Kobolds are still hostile as well?
Yep; they're normally hostile due to [ITEM_THIEF], while goblins are normally hostile due to [BABYSNATCHER]. All creatures with [ITEM_THIEF] are enemies to all creatures without it, and [BABYSNATCHER] is the same, so everything will be hostile to you.



Edit: Generally, modding code can be added anywhere in the relevant entry. The only exception is things that overrule one another, in which case only the last one works. However, relatively few tags overrule another tag, so that's usually not an issue.

You should be able to... Wait, no. Holy crap, that's why goblins don't ride beak dogs anymore! Huh. Well, that's not really part of your question. Anyway, you'll have to add [PET] to Beak Dogs in addition to the other stuff sunshaker mentioned. That'll let you buy them at embark for 26 each, or 51 for war/hunting beak dogs if you add [trAINABLE].
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 07:33:34 pm by NecroRebel »
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Kamudo

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 07:36:07 pm »

Oh, alright. I'll fix [BONECARN]. Might make things easier.

Oh, thanks for the suggestion. I've been considering settling in a human town, since they have a really large amount of supplies to start out with, And I can probably get fortified in somewhere before they all go hostile on me.

Though, my current civilization didn't give me any creatures to embark with. =/ Even though I'm gonna restart after I further edit things.

Oh, I see. Would've been nice to trade with Kobolds or something. But I don't wanna edit things further.
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Lisidadil - A story of one of my first forts.

The continual tale of survival in a harsh land of hate, Fun, betrayal, love, and maybe a random elf or two... If we're unlucky.

sunshaker

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 07:43:20 pm »

Where exactly under the Goblin Entity do I add the Code you provided?

Ok the easiest method to get it totally right is for me to say look at how the other civs in the entity file are set up, look what they have and where it is, even though it isn't a simple and fast put it here answer. Plus it will help you learn your way around the raws so that you get to be a better modder. This will also let you see what the other civs have in case you decide that there is something missing from the goblins after you have played them for a bit.

However this may frustrate you so here are the answers:

[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]

go on the lines AFTER [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]

[DIPLOMAT]
[DIPLOMAT_BODYGUARDS]
[MERCHANT_BODYGUARDS]

go on the lines BEFORE [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]


I'm kinda a noob at modding DF.

I deleted the stuff you suggested.

Do the Tags need to be added into Beak Dogs in any specific place?

after [LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL] on the same or a different line will work

As for Beak Dogs, can I also bring them along at embark? Do they regularly breed, or do I have to edit them to breed and then slaughter them for meat?

They breed normally right now, much like dogs. Bringing them along is hit or miss, it involves being on an Evil biome, I'm not sure if your starting civ must be on the Evil biome or if your embark site has to be evil or both.

I really wanna try to keep it as close to vanilla as possible, while still making some fixes for trading, and some pets and what not.

Answers in red.

Any changes to the entity files will require another regen. Changes to the creature raws will not, but they may require the deletion of the ...\data\objects files (not the ...\raws\objects files).

To be honest I'm not really sure if the locations of the tokens matter so much in raw entries, however I do my best not to deviate to far from the template Toady uses.
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sunshaker

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Re: Playing as Goblins?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 07:50:18 pm »

You should be able to... Wait, no. Holy crap, that's why goblins don't ride beak dogs anymore! Huh. Well, that's not really part of your question. Anyway, you'll have to add [PET] to Beak Dogs in addition to the other stuff sunshaker mentioned. That'll let you buy them at embark for 26 each, or 51 for war/hunting beak dogs if you add [trAINABLE].

Ok I'm going to wander off topic here for a minute.

Would [PET_EXOTIC] work as well as [PET] for allowing Goblins to bring Beak Dogs when on the attack? Would this also be why they don't bring trolls?
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