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[Bricktop]

Now, I know this has been mentioned a few times before, but I would rather make a new thread for it than drag up some months old thread just to add a post onto the end or something.

Anyway, the suggestion:

Basically, I think that we need a way to solve the problem of your army all going to get some food when the goblins are at the gates. I think the best solution would be an option to "alert the fortress" or something. This would be some sort of toggleable on/off mode that would make big changes to the way dwarves act when you turn the mode on.

The effects that this mode could have when it is activated are:

1). All military Dwarves (who are On Duty) will cease eating/drinking/sleeping and being On Break. They will instantly follow all commands, even if it results in them starving to death or something. I know it sounds unrealistic, but this will be a complete end to the problem we have now where your entire army goes on strike in the middle of a battle.

2). All civilians will retreat, and also not eat/drink/sleep/On Break. The Fortress Militia are activated (see below)

The civilians would retreat to the nearest Safe Zone (Safe Zones would be created in the same way as Meeting Area's and Garbage Dumps etc). If there are no safe zones on the map, they will retreat to the nearest Meeting Hall/Statue Garden/Similar rooms. If none of those are available, they will go to the nearest 'meeting zone' (as in the designated meeting area from the garbage/etc menu). This means that if you designate nothing at all they will gather at the carts old location...which isn't good but meh, there we go. It means that they at least go 'somewhere', even if it is disastrous.

You could also set retreat orders to individual dwarves, so if you wanted all civilians to go to the Meeting Hall except for the Mayor, who would go to his bedroom, you could set a personal Safe Zone for him (possibly in the 'Preferences' area on that dwarves profile).

This means that the priority of where dwarves retreat to would be like this:

'Personal Retreat zone'
'Safe Zone' (the designated zones)
'Social Room' (meeting halls etc)
'Designated Meeting Area's'
'The cart location'

Activating the Mode

There are two ways that this mode could be activated in-game. Either from its own screen somewhere in the interface (possible in the z-menu) or from a building, possibly "Alarm Bell" or "Alarm Horn" or something similar. If it is from the building, then it should only need one piece of building material and it could be anything. That means that it is pretty much just a basic thing for your fort to have.

Militia

Loosely connected with this suggestion is the idea of having a 'Fortress Militia'. When dwarves are put into the militia, it means that during 'Alarm Mode' they become a military squad. However, when the fortress is not in 'Alarm Mode' (I know its a bad name, but I can't think of any other) they go about their jobs normally. The advantage to having dwarves in the militia is that when they are On Break they will occasionally spar with each other, but only if they have access to whatever weapon the militia have been set to use (all militia members would use the same equipment).

This militia sparring would be different in that there is no chance of injury, but also a skill cap at "Skilled" or maybe even just "Competent".

When the 'Alarm Mode' is activated, the militia would all be activated into a single squad, and would immediately go and grab their weapons/armour.

Fortress Guards/Royal Guards would automatically be in the militia.

[ May 26, 2008: Message edited by: Bricktop ]

[Align]

I think the problem would be solved automatically if
1. Squad members don't follow their leaders everywhere (so less no sparring when the leader eats or sleeps)
2. Dwarves didn't have synchronized eat, drink, and sleep times.

-

But an alarm system would be nice.

[ May 26, 2008: Message edited by: Align ]

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Bricktop:
<STRONG>I know this has been mentioned a few times before, but I would rather make a new thread for it than drag up some months old thread just to add a post onto the end or something.</STRONG>

Translation: "This has been said already but I want my own thread". Pity you didin't add you opinion to another thread since that would have been according to the forum rules that exist to stop the maningless duplication of identical questions and answers.

You do a good summary of some of the discussion and consensus already made, but there is not anything new at all that hasn't been said less than ten times already (no exaggeration) in your post.

Please search the forum and do add your post to one of the already existing threads next time, since ego tripping is self-defeating because it contributes to the noise that drowning your suggestions and posts.

[Bricktop]

Except, Mikademus, for the fact that apparently replying to any thread a month or so old does nothing more than get a load of people complaining about "thread necromancy", so its a case of not being able to do right for doing wrong for the most part.

Also, since when did I say that I started this thread as "an ego trip"? I hardly think its something to be all proud of, the ability to start a thread. I just didn't want to reply to a thread and have a bunch of people complaining about "necromancy" despite the fact that they have no real understanding of what thread necromancy really is.

[Mikademus]

quote:Originally posted by Bricktop:
<STRONG>Except, Mikademus, for the fact that apparently replying to any thread a month or so old does nothing more than get a load of people complaining about "thread necromancy"</STRONG>

Not any more, ot those that do are flamed in turn for not knowing the rules. The rules, written above, which state that you should use existing thread, even if it means "resurrecting" them. My points still stands: (1) you should obey the rules and use existing threads, (2) there is nothing new in your suggestion that hasn't been said a hundred times and been discussed extensively already, and (3) wantingly posting new threads constitutes noise and is detrimental to not only yours but also all others' suggestions (until we get a form where threads can be moved and merged).

[Pacho]

Mikademus:  I don't see the need to attack him personally (ego trip?).  He made an honest mistake, and just because he was ignorant of the rules doesn't mean that you get to insult him and bash his idea.  I've read the threads you're referencing, and this idea is not a duplication.  Similar, yes, but almost anything concerning this topic will get a similar solution.

[Slappy Moose]

Instead of robot soldiers, how about they just don't eat or sleep etc until they are at the almost-dead stage, so that you don't accidentally leave your soldiers like this and come back to a bunch of bones covered in armor.

Also, the safe zone idea is much requested. Like a bomb shelter, but with lots of booze inside.

[Shakes]

quote:Originally posted by Slappy Moose:
<STRONG>Also, the safe zone idea is much requested. Like a bomb shelter, but with lots of booze inside.</STRONG>

Hah, 'If we're all gonna die then we're damn well taking down every drop of booze to hell with us'. I like it. Post seige alcohol shortage would definitely add to the fun.

@Mikademus 'ego trippin'?? Wigga whaaaat??

On topic - what about an actual in game item like a warhorn that could be sounded when a dwarf actually sees the threat (could even be made from appropriate animal horns). So have a 'sentry' option for military dwarves where the dwarfs first job will be to sound the warhorn before engaging the enemy, which would activate this mode. Or a drum or something nice and dwarven.

[apache1990]

quote:Originally posted by Shakes:
<STRONG>On topic - what about an actual in game item like a warhorn that could be sounded when a dwarf actually sees the threat (could even be made from appropriate animal horns).</STRONG>

That's sort of like something I thought of.  My idea is that if a dwarf is scared by a hostile creature (non-wildlife), they'll automatically pull the nearest alarm lever/blow a horn/storm into the captain of the guard's office shouting.  Assuming they survive to get there,  .

[lastofthelight]

I hate to break a rule myself, but the largest rule of the forums, as posted above the list of topics, is not to bicker. Presumably the golden rule is the most important. In any event, I think the post above was well thought out, well written, and gives a good argument.

The idea of having an in-game item (and presumably a 'blow warhorn' action is also a good one, I'm reminded of Gimli sounding the Horn of Helm Hammerhand in the Battle of Helm's deep. It'd make for a good few stories in the DF fanfic section at least:

Dwarf 1: "Misobur, the Horn of Zon Cheesebeard, shall sound in the Glacier, One Last time!"
Randomn Dwarf 2: "Yes!"

Dwarf 1: *runs outside anyways because of a pathfinding bug*

[ May 27, 2008: Message edited by: lastofthelight ]

[SmileyMan]

Definitely like the in-game warhorn idea, just like a lever, but with a "Blow Horn" action, which sets up a yellow/red alert situation.  Much better than an arbitrary alert setting, and would require that the horn be placed somewhere accessible.

I like the idea of "a vile force of darkness has arrived" being followed by the usual rush of pulling drawbridge levers and a new task of blowing the horn.

If there were graded alert statuses, then perhaps it could even replace the "Dwarves go outside" order?

[Bricktop]

quote:Instead of robot soldiers, how about they just don't eat or sleep etc until they are at the almost-dead stage, so that you don't accidentally leave your soldiers like this and come back to a bunch of bones covered in armor.

The reason I don't like the "wait until dwarves are almost dead" idea is because that still leaves the possibility of us having the current problem. Granted, it would be rarer but you would still occasionally get dwarves going to eat during the middle of a battle.

Also, if you accidently leave your fortress in "alarm mode" then you deserve dead dwarves. The idea behind it was that you would not be able to undertake any work or anything during the seige, on account of your dwarves all being in the safe zones. If you manage to sit there and watch your entire fortress starve to death without noticing something is wrong, then chances are you're fortress wasn't going to last too much longer anyway  

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Mikademus:
<STRONG>

Translation: "This has been said already but I want my own thread". Pity you didin't add you opinion to another thread since that would have been according to the forum rules that exist to stop the maningless duplication of identical questions and answers.
</STRONG>

I've found to the contrary that a lot of people in a lot of forums (this too) get extremely upset for some reason if you post to a thread that hasn't been posted to in a while. Adding to existing threads seems the natural thing for me to do too, but after being admonished (ranging from "stern talking to" to "flamed to a crisp and then nearly banned") pretty much every forum I tried it, I started making new threads all the time too.

[mickel]

To actually post something relevant as well, I like the idea of an alert mode. Some kind of General Quarters drill would be great. All civilian dwarves retreat to safe places. Dwarves in or near their workshops go inside and lock the doors, dwarves in or near their homes do the same. Those near animals round them up and lock them in as well, etc.

Since they're dwarves, a blast from a massive horn would do well for a GQ signal.  

[Whiskey Bob]

Something like this would be grand.  Even just a global "halt all orders" toggle would be enough to get the civilians to cluster up at the meeting spot instead of running out to greet the "guests".