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[DreamThorn]

At Vector and SirBayer,

I switched to Errol, because I think I have already made it clear enough that Vector is scum.  I want to take as much scum with me as is possible.

Also, changing strategies is a valid strategy for all sides.  One needs to adapt to one's situation, whatever that might become.  Especially, since I'm a novice, I have to learn from earlier mistakes.

Vector, when you base assumptions on me being a novice, that is okay.  Basing assumptions on that I am stupid, is rather stupid.  Also, do the maths on my WIFOM so far, and you will see that I can only gain from it if I am town.  I'd like to know why, in your whole discussion about how scummy you want people to think I am, you never even mentioned the possibility that I am a jester.  Looks to me like you are desperate to kill me, rather than helping the town to make an informed decision.  I'll ask more questions later.

At whoever asked me how town-WIFOM works,

Normally, town has nothing to hide.  In this game all townspeople have Xanatos Roulette goals, so everyone has something to hide.  Also, WIFOM gets less effective the more you use it, because there are patterns in one's behavior, so I decided to vary what I use WIFOM for over the game.  In day 1 I use WIFOM on my XR actions.

The reason why I decided to reveal all, earlier, was to try to remove suspicion from me, so that people are more likely to go after the real scum, like Vector.

DF Autumn 1:  I mine for more ore.

Slogan vote: Pillow Fight.  Seems like a good idea.  It removes fear of NK for town, allowing us to work more freely.

Errol, are you going to explain your actions, or just claim noob?  It looks to me as if you are working with Vector to frame me.

[Vector]

I switched to Errol, because I think I have already made it clear enough that Vector is scum.  I want to take as much scum with me as is possible.

No.  You said it was because you feared the NK.  Now stop lying and start being townish, or I will personally make sure you swing from the gallows today.  Also, if I'm obviously scum, then why in the hell is no one voting me--and additionally, why aren't you rectifying that fact by making a nice loud call for my lynch?

Vector, when you base assumptions on me being a novice, that is okay.  Basing assumptions on that I am stupid, is rather stupid.  Also, do the maths on my WIFOM so far, and you will see that I can only gain from it if I am town.  I'd like to know why, in your whole discussion about how scummy you want people to think I am, you never even mentioned the possibility that I am a jester.  Looks to me like you are desperate to kill me, rather than helping the town to make an informed decision.  I'll ask more questions later.

...

SO INCREDIBLY DESPERATE:

Vector, as you can see, Leafsnail has already removed his vote from you, as I expected.  I expect that Org will soon do the same.

If you can answer me the following question, I will focus my attention on a person of your choice instead.

"In the Dark Border series, what is the name of that great and benevolent being who repopulated the world with humans from another universe?"

I'm not answering that, doodabuddy.  Period.  And if other people are smart, they won't answer it, either.

So, either you're town and seriously silly enough to not know how to conceal your intentions (and you don't really know about the third-vote rule), or you're scum... but if you're scum, then you're blatantly stabbing your buddies in the back, and you are therefore completely screwed.  I also seriously can't see such a novice player pulling a fake XR condition so early in a game.

Bleh.  You're horribly anti-town, but you're probably not scum... so Unvote.

That I already said what you're saying and unvoted you.  I'm in fact trying so very hard to get you dead that I already said you were probably town.  I mean, COME ON.  Am I talking crazy, or is there some other reason that you can't remember what I said a few pages ago?  I mean, yeah, sure, this game makes no sense BLEH-DER-BLOODY-BLAH, but this is simple.

I already spoke my piece and addressed your points.  Unfortunately, I can't make you read and/or understand them.  Now, I have a question for you, put in nice big letters so that you can't miss it like you did the entirety of that post:

Of the players in this game, which would you most prefer on your scumteam?



Vector purchases two units of booze by selling the crafts crate.

Am I allowed to take any other dwarfy actions today?

[Pandarsenic]

You, and one of the players who's good at going under the radar whom I cannot name because of their talent at undertheradarness.

[Org]

GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR ROOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRRRRR SKKKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

THE TRUTH AND LIGHT MAKES MECHANISMS.

[dakarian]

@vector

Nope. Can't trade AND do something else.

[DreamThorn]

Sorry, Vector, I took anti-town and scum as synonyms, which is why I didn't realize you were satisfied with my statements.  I recently noticed you playing on a beginners' game, so I guess you might also look scummy only due to noob mistakes.

For your question, about who I would like most as a scum-team buddy...  I am not certain what makes a good scum buddy, but I think that Org has potential.  I originally didn't answer this question, because I thought it was a trap that you could use to make me look more scum-like.

The reason why I switched to Humaan, was to avoid NK.
The reason why I switched to Errol, was to continue scumhunting.

Now we are at peace.

Errol, I am still waiting for a response from you.  I have also now identified your element.

[DreamThorn]

In fact I've identified Errol, Pandarsenic and SirBayer's elements.

Now, please, remove some votes from me, before Hastur gets lynched.  All votes against me goes against Hastur instead, at the moment, but I am not certain what happens to me if Hastur gets lynched.

[DreamThorn]

Just noticed something interesting.  The people voting for me, are also voting for THING/KS EXPLODING!!!!11!!

That is looking very organized.  As in, organized crime organized, if you know what I mean.

So, I might as well tell everyone their elements.

Errol is grass.
Pandarsenic is probably grass.
SirBayer is probably fire.

[Errol]

Sorry about the leave. I shall SMELT THAT ORE.

Just noticed something interesting.  The people voting for me, are also voting for THING/KS EXPLODING!!!!11!!

That is looking very organized.  As in, organized crime organized, if you know what I mean.

You might as well compare the length of our toenails.

Now, please, remove some votes from me, before Hastur gets lynched.  All votes against me goes against Hastur instead, at the moment, but I am not certain what happens to me if Hastur gets lynched.

This just removed all doubts from me to lynch this little private. You're spewing WIFOM like a wine glass gatling gun fully automatic sentry:

- If I get lynched, THE ABOMINATION FROM OUTER SPACE TAKES IT!
- Oh, look, a coincidence! Let's make a conspiracy theory from it!
- Errol, vi know yur vote element. Nya ha ha ha ha. Nov I've got yu.

That's how you are acting essentially. And if you are not scum - heavy doubts - you are anti-town and deserve the gallows, and the purgatory, too. Because that's not scumhunting, that's Pulling Weird Shit To Distract The Town.

[DreamThorn]

I may have made a mistake with the elements.

I see actual pokémon elements are much more complicated than I thought, but then again, we are not using the full set.  I think I'll just ignore elements for a while more.

And Errol, at the very least, if I die I flip Hastur (Town).  But it might get more complicated than that.

[SirBayer]

Quicknote:  There's no hammers.  There's the good old "half the town is in agreement, so I allow a day shortening" deal.

Good to know.

Web: Why not?

Because you're scum, scumbag.

Also, Org's words are Light and Truth.

I am also guessing that he is a dinosaur.

Or perhaps Rex Kackley. (har har, Panda)

At Vector and SirBayer,

I switched to Errol, because I think I have already made it clear enough that Vector is scum.  I want to take as much scum with me as is possible.

No, see, you haven't made Vector obvscum. Vector is still very comfortable. Vector could very easily be scum but you haven't broken her. I make a big deal out of this a lot of the time, because it's a wonderful indication of scummitude through behavior. If you're not willing to push the target to the edge of their seat, then you're not really hunting.

You're not willing to do it. You're not really hunting. You're trying to avoid it.

Also, changing strategies is a valid strategy for all sides.  One needs to adapt to one's situation, whatever that might become.  Especially, since I'm a novice, I have to learn from earlier mistakes.

Yes, you need to adapt to your situation, but it's not a great idea to adapt downwards. You don't back down. That's not town behavior. So concerned about what we think of you, Thorn. Why is that? Oh wait, because you're scum.

Vector, when you base assumptions on me being a novice, that is okay.  Basing assumptions on that I am stupid, is rather stupid.  Also, do the maths on my WIFOM so far, and you will see that I can only gain from it if I am town.  I'd like to know why, in your whole discussion about how scummy you want people to think I am, you never even mentioned the possibility that I am a jester.  Looks to me like you are desperate to kill me, rather than helping the town to make an informed decision.  I'll ask more questions later.

WIFOM is never acceptable as town. No exceptions. Ever.

At whoever asked me how town-WIFOM works,

Normally, town has nothing to hide.  In this game all townspeople have Xanatos Roulette goals, so everyone has something to hide.  Also, WIFOM gets less effective the more you use it, because there are patterns in one's behavior, so I decided to vary what I use WIFOM for over the game.  In day 1 I use WIFOM on my XR actions.

Well gee, let's just make it OBVIOUS we're chasing after our XR goals, hmm? How's about this? Let's KILL THE SCUM and WIN THE EASY WAY first? I'd rather win with the whole town than get my XR goals any day. You don't seem to like that idea. And I don't like that you don't like that.

The reason why I decided to reveal all, earlier, was to try to remove suspicion from me,

Oh, so you ARE afraid of a lynch. Not a townie behavior.

so that people are more likely to go after the real scum, like Vector.

Not a legitimate argument when you're town. Being lynched to convict scum is just fine. But that's not what you're doing here, is it?

Slogan vote: Pillow Fight.  Seems like a good idea.  It removes fear of NK for town, allowing us to work more freely.

Do you know... something about how the slogan affects us? Did I miss something in the earlier pages or did you just reveal that you know something you shouldn't? HEY EVERYONE, DID I MISS SOMETHING ABOUT THE SLOGAN THING OR SHOULD WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT ACTUALLY DOES?

Errol, are you going to explain your actions, or just claim noob?  It looks to me as if you are working with Vector to frame me.

You say, as you claim noob.

Just noticed something interesting.  The people voting for me, are also voting for THING/KS EXPLODING!!!!11!!

That is looking very organized.  As in, organized crime organized, if you know what I mean.

So, I might as well tell everyone their elements.

Errol is grass.
Pandarsenic is probably grass.
SirBayer is probably fire.

Well that's just pathetic. You're trying to divert attention from you. That's just...

...well, we know what you are now. For sure.

[Vector]

I recently noticed you playing on a beginners' game, so I guess you might also look scummy only due to noob mistakes.

No, I happen to be running that game--but certainly, you're allowed to keep thinking I'm making noob mistakes (oh, what, and that Org is the Best Scumbuddy Evar).

I originally didn't answer this question, because I thought it was a trap that you could use to make me look more scum-like.

Yeah, questions do that.  The problem is that not answering questions "because you want to look less scummy" causes a bit of a problem--since it all turns into this gigantic sign screaming "DON'T LYNCH ME!  DON'T LYNCH ME!"

That's what actual scumminess looks like, by the way.  Self-preservation to a fault.

Now we are at peace.

No.  No, we are not.  I'm going to either keep grilling you until you learn how to play and stop shooting scumtells everywhere, or you get lynched.  Either or.  You have until the end of D2 maximum to clean up your act or get dragged to the gibbet by yours truly.

That's how you are acting essentially. And if you are not scum - heavy doubts - you are anti-town and deserve the gallows, and the purgatory, too. Because that's not scumhunting, that's Pulling Weird Shit To Distract The Town.

Going for the good old anti-town lynch, are we?  Unvote.  Errol, I'm afraid you've caught my attention.

Favorite scumbuddies and most likely to be scum after Mr. Dreamy here, please.

[DreamThorn]

So, you say that self-preservation is scummy...

So, to be town-like, I have to not be afraid of death, leading to my death and thus bringing mafia closer to winning?

I think we have some bad memes around here.  This is just one of them.  Hopefully, the new blood, like myself, can throw some doubts on these old and stagnant ideas.

See you day 2.

[Vector]

So, you say that self-preservation is scummy...

So, to be town-like, I have to not be afraid of death, leading to my death and thus bringing mafia closer to winning?

I know that this is one of the more irritatingly confusing aspects of Mafia, but hear me out.

Townies should be unafraid of death.  Your job is to find the scum and kill them, not run a massive campaign to keep yourself alive.  If you're attacked, then you try to save yourself--but as-is, you want to be nightkilled.  Being nightkilled is a good sign.  It means you were dangerous.  It's not like you're going to be doing a whole bunch of good alive and drawing all kinds of attention to yourself.

Being unafraid of death should not lead to your death unless you're being a total moron about it, in which case yes, you will get lynched and it will be a total waste of the day.  Your job is to find scum.  My job is to find scum, and part of that is figuring out if you're scum or not--laying traps, and so on.  If you happen to fall in, that's probably because you're scum.  Don't be reckless, but do be aggressive.  You're preserving your own life over hunting scum, as though it's worth some ginormtastic amount (hint: it isn't).

Anyone who's played VT's as much as I have (curse you, RNG!) knows that you're really only worth as much as your voice and your vote.  Look at me, for example--do I look like I'm trying to save my life above all else?  Not really.  I am, however, answering every accusation laid against me and being open with all pertinent information.  There's a difference between throwing one's life away and playing in a manner that isn't obscenely self-preservational.  You must protect yourself, but it shouldn't be the priority.  The priority is to above all else find scum.

Additional: you seemed to have this amusing idea that you've broken me and shown me to be scum.  A hint: NSBMI (Not-So-Beginner's Mafia) is, if I remember correctly, the only game where I've completely snapped.  If you want to read up on my meta, that's a reasonable place to do it.  Hell, I'll even tell you where to find my worst scumgames, if you like.  They might be educational for you.

I think we have some bad memes around here.  This is just one of them.  Hopefully, the new blood, like myself, can throw some doubts on these old and stagnant ideas.

I'M GOING TO BECOME A PRINCE AND REVOLUTIONIZE THE WORLD!!!

</obscure Revolutionary Girl Utena reference>
</pink and frills>

In more seriousness, go ahead and try... but there's a reason why we play this way, and it's rather more new than "old and stagnant."  If you think the right answer is to jump in here and WIFOM the town, lie out your ears, try to protect yourself from the nightkill, votehop, ignore others' advice under the usual "the old guard is stagnant and I know how to play better!" meme, sidestep questions that might possibly hurt you, and lay flimsy accusations on everyone that's attacking you until they've stopped jumping down your throat (hello, OMGUS)... well.

I'm sorry, but I can't exactly condone it.  That's why I'm going to keep giving you lessons until you understand the complexity of the situation.  There are situations in which each rule and strategy applies, but right now you really don't seem like you know what you're doing.  Even if you think our playstyle is stupid, it might help to learn a little bit of it first.  Know your enemy, and all that.

Just a thought.

[Pandarsenic]

Unvote.  Errol

DREAMTHORN IS SCUM SO I WILL VOTE TO KILL HIM ERROL!

Why?