Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jugglervr]

I'm a little unclear on what's so great about the 15x15 exploratory method. the rooms that get left behind don't seem amazingly useful. I mean, if I'm preserving the walls that are made with the 15x15, i get 1x wide hallways, which are bad for traffic, and then I can carve 13x13 rooms inside, or 6x6 rooms, but otherwise this doesn't lend itself well to being split up, unless the rationale is to not have surrounding walls around the workshops inside? (seems like walling the workshops is a good idea, to allow locking in of berserkers)

for reference, view the image below...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.gameknave.com/files/15vs13.png

The top 2 rows are the 13x13 method, which seems to allow for much more dynamic and useful designs than the bottom row, which seems to produce "change" when creating 3x3, 4x4, or 5x5 rooms; the only solid room division is 6x6. Additionally, the "apartment" style of living quarters ends up with a lot of dead space with 15x15.

so, i hope i'm not sounding like a snot when i ask this but... why 15x15 (with all the huge minds who work on this game, i know there has to be an efficient reason somewhere)

[tylor]

I dig in 16x16 grid for sole reason that cursor mobes by 8 cells with shift key, so I can mak big territories for digging very fast.

Maybe it will change after i'll lern to use macros :p

[jugglervr]

I dig in 16x16 grid for sole reason that cursor mobes by 8 cells with shift key, so I can mak big territories for digging very fast.

Maybe it will change after i'll lern to use macros :p

Hmm. shift moves by 10 for me. i wonder if there's a way to set this. Also, i thought i saw a macro menu but i dont find it now. would be awesome to have a macro for "designate a floor of an apartment building *here*"

[SkyRender]

Always fascinating to see others' techniques.  Me, I tend to do a more traditional "blind digging in a straight line" method for mineshafts, and of course my 35x35 standard layout for the main fort "tower" (I've done both literal and figurative versions of this):

ooooooooooo             ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooo  o  ooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooooooooooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooo ooo ooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooo ooo ooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooooooooooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooX ooo ooo ooo Xoooooooooo
                ooo
    ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo
    ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo
    ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo
     o   o   o  ooo  o   o   o
 ooo oooooooooooXXXooooooooooo ooo
 oooooooooooooooXXXooooooooooooooo
 ooo oooooooooooXXXooooooooooo ooo
     o   o   o  ooo  o   o   o
    ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo
    ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo
    ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo
                ooo
ooooooooooX ooo ooo ooo Xoooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooooooooooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooo ooo ooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooo ooo ooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooooooooooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo ooo  o  ooo ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo     ooo     ooooooooooo
ooooooooooo             ooooooooooo

[BigD145]

Is 15 the standard center point for generated features (underground river, etc) or is it 32 or some other number? That's all I can think of as a reason.

[Aachen]

Embark tiles are 48 by 48 in-game-tile squares, aren't they?

[ungulateman]

Yes. 15 x 15 is used a lot because it can be cut into smaller rooms quite freely.

[jugglervr]

Yes. 15 x 15 is used a lot because it can be cut into smaller rooms quite freely.

so, i guess i'm wondering if 6x6 rooms (the natural even division of a 15x15) have some greatness to them that I'm not seeing, or if people stick all sorts of sized rooms into the 15x15 or... exactly what.

I mean, if i stick a masonry workshop into a 3x3 room, is the mason going to be claustrophobic?

[random51]

I don't do exploratory mining in the areas I plan on using for fortress rooms/features.

They'll get "explored" when I dig out the rooms in question.

I also don't do much exploratory mining until I've got 50+ dwarves to work with so I can afford to throw 10 Legendary miners at it. Then I designate entire levels for mining with Quickfort.

If I need ores before then I check exposed surfaces for veins anywhere there is a cliff, chasm, pit, or other feature that will reveal some tiles.

[darkflagrance]

Yes. 15 x 15 is used a lot because it can be cut into smaller rooms quite freely.

so, i guess i'm wondering if 6x6 rooms (the natural even division of a 15x15) have some greatness to them that I'm not seeing, or if people stick all sorts of sized rooms into the 15x15 or... exactly what.

I mean, if i stick a masonry workshop into a 3x3 room, is the mason going to be claustrophobic?

Didn't 7X7 rooms used to be susceptible to cave-in in the 2d version?

[zwei]

Always fascinating to see others' techniques.  Me, I tend to do a more traditional "blind digging in a straight line" method for mineshafts, and of course my 35x35 standard layout for the main fort "tower" (I've done both literal and figurative versions of this):

I have this basic exploratory layout:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

######### #########
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
 ######### #########
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
 ######### #########


This ends up being 9x9 usable area with features i want:

* undug tiles in corners can (and will) be turned to stairs
* by default, it resets water pressure
* doors can be installed for greater safety.
* Can be easily and correctly designated by shift-arrows
* I have several "exploratory" patterns ( start with up/down stairs in center, grow "star")

Eventually, I cut corners, install doors and hatches (water paranoia ...)  and create stair pattern:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<#+#####+#X#+#####+#>
##       ###       ##
+         +         +
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
+         +         +
##       ###       ##
X#+#####+#>#+#####+#<
##       ###       ##
+         +         +
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         #         #
#         +         #
##       ###       ##
>#+#####+#<#+#####+#X


Now I have 9x9 blocks with rounded edges to make use of on grid that basically consist off waterlocks which can be severed from rest of fotress easily (did i mention water paranoia?)

WPL: screenies of some templates.

[Grimlocke]

How I dig my exploratory mineshafts]
##RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
###
R###
R ###
R  ###
R   ###
R    ###
R     ###
R      ###
R       ###
R        ###RRRRRRRRR
R         ###
R         R###
R         R ###
R         R  ###
R         R   ###
The #s form a diagonal corridor leading to my fortress, the Rs are ramps used to explore 2 z-levels at once.
I make that corridor diagonal to make each point in the mines be reachable as fast as possible.
I designate the corridors with the keyboard on a 10x10 grid, and draw the diagonal corridor with the mouse.

Edit: whoops, though I removed that spoiler.

[orbcontrolled]

I think it depends a lot on your individual playing style, and maybe even on personality.

I prefer very wide open fortresses with plenty of space to walk. I give most objects (solid or not) a one-tile buffer zone, I would be loathe to wall in a workshop, my bedrooms are oversized (5x2 at the very least), and I always use more hallway and stair than necessary.
I used to use 15x15 because it left a nice buffer between workshops and walls. I say "used to" because eventually I discovered the joys of a single massive one-room factory/warehouse, and I haven't looked back since.

I think it relates directly to how I work in real life. I'm the kind of person who wants to spread papers and piles out far and wide when working, and I've been known to move large projects straight to the floor when a desk becomes too confining. I tend to apply that ethic to my fortresses, even though I know the dwarves could get by perfectly well on less than half the size.

tl;dr: Claustrophobia. Or perhaps more like "agoraphilia".

[Lemunde]

It never ceases to amaze me how much excessive planning some of you do.  The game is so much more fun when you plan as you go.

My exploratory mineshafts are much more chaotic and never in the same area where I'm building fortress features.  http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-21931-exploratoryminingtechnique

[DFPongo]

And yet the rest of the fortress is meticulous, in fact the mine looks meticulously random, like its not random at all, just intended to look that way.
I love your fortress. Trying to figure out what your doing with the water in the 203 year.