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[piecewise]

Toady said dwarves can use any weapons on the next release, so I don't see why they woudn't be allowed to use greatswords. Even D&D dwarves can use them.

And I think most modding shound't be allowed, apart from changing a few names to fit the mood and stuff.

Also, will creatures like Iron Men and GCS be allowed? Like adding a value to them and allowing rich enough players to add them into their team?

I don't see why not. I think that all creatures should be able to be bought and used, but that the bigger ones will be very very expensive. A dragon should cost more then a full suit of master work adamantine.

But the idea of having "pets" like that is too cool to pass up. It will just be very expensive and have limitations.

I am SO in. Also, record the videos and put them on youtube for all to see
Seriously, just being told results will be no fun...

I'll try to record specific matches like arena bosses and large scale team battles whenever we get that separate team based league going. But doing it for ALL the matches will just become crazy. It would be something like 60 videos per person to actually get through the arena. What I'll probably do is record and then only save it if it was a good match. No one wants to see people fighting wolves. 

[Umi]

I want an army of dragons.  >=D

Does anyone know if there will there be friendly fire in the arena mode?  I'd hate to buy a pet dragon only to be roasted in the next match...

[Umi]

Alright, I have an idea for the weapon price balancing.

Why not have the weapon's base price be it's damage in the raw files?  Then, based on material we raise it that percent of the bonus it does.  The raise it the percent extra that it's craftsmanship does.  I'll give an example.

Say you want a masterpiece adamantine short sword.
Short sword damage: 100
Adamantine damage bonus: 500% (Or x5.00)
Masterpiece damage bonus: 200% (Or x2.00)

Multiply those all together and you get exactly 1000.  You technically can do it, but it is going to unleash such unholy power that it is the only thing you get.  Or you could spread out your funds and get a bunch of basic cheap armor and weapons and be all around "ok."  Or you could deliberately get crappy material stuff to lower the price and get skills also.

Just an idea, certainly won't be offended if you don't like it.  I'm looking through the wiki right now for the armor stuff and might make a hypothetical armor price formula as well (especially if you like this one).

EDIT:  And here is the wiki page I got the info from, about 3/4ths down it.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Weapon#Weapon_statistics

EDIT:  Really, I think this formula could work for most everything as the damage increase and the damage reducer works on the same scale.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Armor

It would work out most cleanly compared to other methods.  A uniform formula for everything is much less confusing than a bunch of random formulas to work through...

[Kagus]

Sounds reasonable to me, but figuring out armor prices might be a bit trickier.  And, of course, there's nothing saying that the weapon stats are going to remain the same in the new version.

And then there's the case of how it handles ranged weaponry and ammo...


Overall though, it sounds cool to me.  But, of course, I'm not the one planning this thing.

[Umi]

Maybe double the base damage in the multiplication for ranged weapons since they tend to rapid fire death?  Maybe triple if they are that much better (Not much of an expert on it personally).

For armor you would replace the base damage with the base block.  I don't know what the fractions mean for upper body, but I think it would work for most everything else...

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

You know, I'd probably be able to demolish the arena if I just maxed wrestling skill and shield skill.. and just had a wooden shield
Would that be in the budget?

[Umi]

Not if he sticks with 70 per skill upgrade...

[Huggz]

You know, I'd probably be able to demolish the arena if I just maxed wrestling skill and shield skill.. and just had a wooden shield
Would that be in the budget?

In the next release if you, for example, tried to wrestle a fire juggler you would be incinerated..

[piecewise]

Alright, I have an idea for the weapon price balancing.

Why not have the weapon's base price be it's damage in the raw files?  Then, based on material we raise it that percent of the bonus it does.  The raise it the percent extra that it's craftsmanship does.  I'll give an example.

Say you want a masterpiece adamantine short sword.
Short sword damage: 100
Adamantine damage bonus: 500% (Or x5.00)
Masterpiece damage bonus: 200% (Or x2.00)

Multiply those all together and you get exactly 1000.  You technically can do it, but it is going to unleash such unholy power that it is the only thing you get.  Or you could spread out your funds and get a bunch of basic cheap armor and weapons and be all around "ok."  Or you could deliberately get crappy material stuff to lower the price and get skills also.

Just an idea, certainly won't be offended if you don't like it.  I'm looking through the wiki right now for the armor stuff and might make a hypothetical armor price formula as well (especially if you like this one).

EDIT:  And here is the wiki page I got the info from, about 3/4ths down it.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Weapon#Weapon_statistics

EDIT:  Really, I think this formula could work for most everything as the damage increase and the damage reducer works on the same scale.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Armor

It would work out most cleanly compared to other methods.  A uniform formula for everything is much less confusing than a bunch of random formulas to work through...

Unfortunately the system of weapon damage calculation is completely revamped and different in this version with everything going off stuff like material, edge retention, and other more nebulous things. I'm sure there will be somewhat of a system to follow but we're going to have to see once the game comes out.  I know that what I'm doing first is heading into arena mode and testing out all the weapons.

Maybe double the base damage in the multiplication for ranged weapons since they tend to rapid fire death?  Maybe triple if they are that much better (Not much of an expert on it personally).

For armor you would replace the base damage with the base block.  I don't know what the fractions mean for upper body, but I think it would work for most everything else...

Ranged weapons will be nerfed in the next version (or at least toady says they will be) so they shouldn't need massive extra costs. Of course if it turns out that that bows are still magical devices which teleport spears into your chest then what I'll probably do is just further nerf them so that we don't have all the high level people exclusively using bows.  I want all the weapons to be roughly equal with none having a massive advantage over all the others.

Not if he sticks with 70 per skill upgrade...

That cost will more then likely increase per level, but we'll see.

You know, I'd probably be able to demolish the arena if I just maxed wrestling skill and shield skill.. and just had a wooden shield
Would that be in the budget?

In the next release if you, for example, tried to wrestle a fire juggler you would be incinerated..

Not to mention the magma men

[darkflagrance]

Another way to limit bows could be to limit allowed ammunition.

And I think wrestling as such won't exist in the new version.

[piecewise]

Another way to limit bows could be to limit allowed ammunition.

And I think wrestling as such won't exist in the new version.

It will exist, but in a different form.

[piupau]

This is all very disturbing. How can there be a fight club without the proper rules?

Anyway, I just thought that it wouldn't be impossible to write a little handler in Python (or whatever rocks your boat) which keeps track of a money integer and what's bought with it, then modifies the raws to reflect these transactions and launches the DF arena mode with the correct arguments to initiate the fight. The only thing that's unsure about it is that whether or not you can launch the DF arena mode (team) fights with command line arguments and/or specific raw files, but the same limitation applies to any IRC bot.

[RavingManiac]

If one has done any modding related to armor, he should know that a "chestplate" also protects the lower body, as well as all parts directly connected to the upper and lower body. This means that the head and upper limbs are also protected.

Greaves protect the lower body all the way down to the feet. Gloves and boots protect the hands + lower arms and feet + lower legs respectively. The only piece of armor that protects one part is the helmet.

I suggest that, assuming that protection of a vital part(head, upper/lower body) is worth twice as much as that of a non-vital part, the cost of armors be:

Plate mail("chestplate") - 580
Chain mail("chestplate") - 380
Leather("chestplate") - 200
Greaves - 560
Chain leggings - 400
Helmet - 120
Cap - 40
Pair of Gauntlets - 120
Pair of Gloves - 120
Pair of High Boots - 240
Pair of Low Boots - 120

These are just the ratios. Multiply by the material effectiveness and quality.

[piecewise]

If one has done any modding related to armor, he should know that a "chestplate" also protects the lower body, as well as all parts directly connected to the upper and lower body. This means that the head and upper limbs are also protected.

Greaves protect the lower body all the way down to the feet. Gloves and boots protect the hands + lower arms and feet + lower legs respectively. The only piece of armor that protects one part is the helmet.

I suggest that, assuming that protection of a vital part(head, upper/lower body) is worth twice as much as that of a non-vital part, the cost of armors be:

Plate mail("chestplate") - 580
Chain mail("chestplate") - 380
Leather("chestplate") - 200
Greaves - 560
Chain leggings - 400
Helmet - 120
Cap - 40
Pair of Gauntlets - 120
Pair of Gloves - 120
Pair of High Boots - 240
Pair of Low Boots - 120

These are just the ratios. Multiply by the material effectiveness and quality.

Yeah, thats how its going to be done in the end, maybe not with those exact ratios but with separate prices.

[Umi]

Bump, is this going to happen?