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[gtmattz]

And magma.


I have read over and over on the forum that wooden pumps deconstruct spontaneously if used to pump magma too long, but had use them in a pinch and never had an accident, so for science I did an experiment and set up a completely wooden screw pump to pumping magma and left it run to see how long it lasts...  Well 3 elven caravans have expired in my trade depot since I pulled the lever and still no spontaneous gooey flaming fun has occurred, so I am going to go out on a limb here and say that, as long as magma does not actually occupy the same tile as the pump and the pump is not situated with both its tiles over flowing magma, wooden pumps are safe for pumping magma, just like any other pump made from non-magma safe material..

-Update (for those who don't want to scroll down through all my spam):

It appears that flowing magma under the pump will cause it to explode.  So far my testing has shown that it has to be flowing under both tiles of the pump to cause it to catch fire, and that as long as I keep 1 tile of the pump free from magma below then the pump keeps pumping.  Testing in temperate to hot biomes have all shown the same repeatable results, regardless of on the surface or below ground.



And yet the science continues!  I know that at this stage in the game the point of researching this is probably moot, since there are likely changes in the new version which will make the mechanics of pumping magma with wooden pumps a completely different situation, but I am trying to figure it out anyway, just because its something that has been nagging at me for a while I guess.

[XSI]

Yeah, we had a few fun posts about that. Not quite tests but someone tried to say the same, and then in the same thread asked why his pumps failed and flooded half the fort.

Keep using those pumps, try keeping them running for longer times, and maybe turn on temperature, it is entirely possible and I'd say even likely that they will eventually break. (Try looking at the things used to build it, if it's got 'x' around it then bad things will happen, for Science!)

I don't trust wood. It's an elf material, everything is better if it's metal or stone.

Just an edit here since I don't think it would be nice to post a new reply far down that my comment has nothing new to add to the thread, I said the temperature on bit because many people play with it off until they actually need/want it, since it slows down the game by a lot. It is a reasonable assumption to think people have temperature off unless specificly stated they do have it on. A friend of mine asked why magma didn't burn once. Temperature was off and he's about to graduate a math education.

[o_O[WTFace]]

My understanding is that heat flow from surrounding tiles causes the deconstruction.  Are you testing them in the middle of a room with channels behind it?  I think that would disperse the heat. 

[Hyndis]

Heat only transfers from magma if the object is in the same tile as magma. This is why your dwarves working in magma smelters (usually) do not burst into flames.

This is also why you can use a wooden door to hold back magma and it works fine. Forever!

Until the door is opened at least. Then it instantly bursts into flames and any mechanisms melt. Its great for making one-shot doors or floodgates that will dissolve with no trace left behind.

[Jim Groovester]

Try your experiment again in a scorching biome. On the surface.

You'll see those wooden pumps burst into flames.

[Krelos]

I solved this problem by modding in 3 extra types of "'name' Cap" mushroom trees.
The red variety are fireproof.

[gtmattz]

... someone tried to say the same, and then in the same thread asked why his pumps failed and flooded half the fort...

My guess is that person would have had the same problem had he made his pumps out of non-magma-safe materials, regardless of wether it was wood, or shale and copper or anything else.

...and maybe turn on temperature...

Do you really think I am that stupid?

Try your experiment again in a scorching biome. On the surface.

You'll see those wooden pumps burst into flames.

Yeah, along with everything else thats not stone.   I tried this and couldn't even get my logs to survive initial embark so, eh, yea this is a case where they will explode, if you can manage to even get them built...

[Kanddak]

Movie of a wooden magma pump underground in a temperate biome bursting into flames after a short duration of pumping magma which never occupies the pump tile: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1169-40dmagmaburningwoodenpump

But I, too, have also used a wooden magma pump and had it not catch fire. I have no idea what makes the difference.

[gtmattz]

Movie of a wooden magma pump underground in a temperate biome bursting into flames after a short duration of pumping magma which never occupies the pump tile: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1169-40dmagmaburningwoodenpump

But I, too, have also used a wooden magma pump and had it not catch fire. I have no idea what makes the difference.

Thanks for that link!  I will try some other things based on what I have seen here.

[garfield751]

i built my pumps out of bauxiate blocks and wood innerds and it wore out and deconstructed so it might also have to do with what you make the pump out of too

[NecroRebel]

I remember someone saying that they had tested this myth in multiple biomes and determined that the outside temperature affects the speed, or maybe even the chance, of wood screw pump parts being damaged by pumping magma. Higher outdoor temperatures = more damage. I believe that they also claimed that in freezing biomes there was no damage at all after extended pumping.

This, of course, makes no sense whatsoever, but then again nothing about wood magma pumps seems to. Regardless, testing otherwise-identical setups in different biomes might be something to try.

[gtmattz]

After watching that video linked above I did some more testing and found that if the pumps have both tiles over the magma pipe then it catches fire nearly instantly after starting to pump.  I set up a reservoir a bit away from the pipe and built pumps over it and they did not explode when both tiles were over the magma.   An interesting find at the very least.

[gtmattz]

After more testing it appears that the test with the reservoir was flawed.  It appears that any flowing magma beneath the impassible tile pump will cause it to catch fire.  Going to do some more testing to see if this bears out.


OK, so after even more testing, it seems that as long as one avoids any flowing magma beneath the whole pump then the pump doesn't explode.  So far the limited testing has shown me that there can be magma flow beneath either of the tiles individually, but if its flowing beneath both of them (i.e. changing level from 2-6) then the pump will deconstruct.  I have tried this on temperate, warm, and hot and the behavior seems to be consistent in that as long as there is no flowing magma under the pump it does not deconstruct.

[Loyal]

I have four wooden pumps underground, channeling magma from a volcano to my magmaworks. In four in-game years there have been no difficulties.

I'm not sure who would build or why they would be built above-ground for magma-channeling purposes, unless you're trying to get magma up a tower or something... in which case your fortress is likely developed enough that you can just make the pumps out of iron.

[DarkDragon]

After more testing it appears that the test with the reservoir was flawed.  It appears that any flowing magma beneath the impassible tile pump will cause it to catch fire.  Going to do some more testing to see if this bears out.


OK, so after even more testing, it seems that as long as one avoids any flowing magma beneath the whole pump then the pump doesn't explode.  So far the limited testing has shown me that there can be magma flow beneath either of the tiles individually, but if its flowing beneath both of them (i.e. changing level from 2-6) then the pump will deconstruct.  I have tried this on temperate, warm, and hot and the behavior seems to be consistent in that as long as there is no flowing magma under the pump it does not deconstruct.

Based on that it sounds like the determining factor is whether or not the floor tiles underneath the pump are considered "warm" or not.

If you had no pump there and that tile was not mined out, when you went to mine it out it would show as a "warm" tile.

That's probably the key factor then. The pump cannot occupy the same space as a "warm" tile. And since "warmth" (and "dampness") travels over 1 z-level in either direction, this explains some of the misconception over pumping with non-magma safe material.

I personally have an entire pump stack in my current fort which has pumps built out of regular stone blocks and metal innards (but not necessarily magma safe metals, such as silver) and it works fine, but I did have some meltage at one point due to a door that was stuck open so some magma leaked onto a pump, but that's a different issue altogether. (although it did melt multiple pumps)

Once that leak was fixed the stack works perfectly.