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[Kaelem Gaen]

I was using winmerge earlier to put in the prefstrings and stuff added from the "Small things" mod into Kobold Camp without losing the current raws and I noticed the Kobolds had the [CAN_CIV] tag in the "Small things" creature_Standard.txt.

Is the Can_Civ used anymore or is it just an old tag now (40D## series)
And if it is used what does it mean cause I didn't see it anywhere in the kobold camp D16 creature_standard raws...

[sunshaker]

No, [CAN_CIV] is still a valid token. Kobold Camp uses [INTELLIGENT] because it implies [CAN_CIV][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK] ([INTELLIGENT] = [CAN_CIV][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]).

Kobold Camp did this to make Kobolds more playable.

[Kaelem Gaen]

ah okay, so if you wanted to allow a Civ, of something that can't really learn... you can use CAN_CIV and CAN_SPEAK  but they won't gain skills?

[sunshaker]

Yup.

[Kaelem Gaen]

Not exactly the same vein but how do you make it so you can trade with a civ during peace time, like how sometimes you can trade with Goblins during peace time and you're close enough to their fortress.

[darkflagrance]

I believe that another modder found that [CAN_CIV] actually doesn't affect the ability of a creature to form civs in the relevant entity. In that sense, it is obsolete.

Rather, it seems to prevent that unit from being found in the wild unassociated with a civilization.

[sunshaker]

Not exactly the same vein but how do you make it so you can trade with a civ during peace time, like how sometimes you can trade with Goblins during peace time and you're close enough to their fortress.

You can trade with all civs except those that are "hostile" or at war with you. War status is determined during world gen and not tied to any one token, but to opposing ethics ([ETHIC:(whatever):(whatever)]). Hostile comes from [ITEM_THIEF] (entity), [BABYSNATCHER] (entity) and [UTTERANCES] (creature).

[Raddish]

if its a new race being set up i would guess that your going to need too tell it when to sen caravans.

[Kaelem Gaen]

So to have the dwarves trade with the kobolds, I'd need to make a version of the dwarves that babysnatch? (stupid goblins don't even bring evil wood despite using it.)  but I'm guessing items brought to trade are currently hard-coded in.

[3]

Nope, BABYSNATCHER/ITEM_THIEF/lack of CAN_SPEAK renders the civ in question hostile to everyone whatever happens - they won't necessarily start wars with each other, but the hostile status will stay in place regardless of whether you're playing as a civ similar to them or not. Making snatcher dwarfs will just result in everyone attacking you.

[sunshaker]

I'd have to experiment to be sure, I recall someone saying that all the [BABYSNATCHER] civs in their heavily modified game were peaceful towards one another, but I'm not sure if that was the hostile but no war type of peace or the lets trade type of peace.

However [BABYSNATCHER] Dwarves will not trade with Kobolds even if the above is correct (which it may not be) because Kobolds have the [UTTERANCES] token, which means they can't talk. No Talking = No Trade. Thinking about it Kobolds might not even be capable of trading with themselves.

[Kaelem Gaen]

Eh I removed Utterance from the Kobolds actually, they're often presented (in Kobold camp) as a tribal people, and tribal people have a language that one can eventually learn,  so I removed the utterance tag.

So without the utterance tag what can I do?  And is there  a way to determine what a entity might bring to trade?

[Deon]

ITEM_THIEF also makes them BAD for trade . You should get rid of all skulking tokens to make them trading partners.

[Haspen]

And is there  a way to determine what a entity might bring to trade?

They bring whatever they're allowed to 'produce' offscreen.

They will bring all weapons, armors, clothes, instruments and toys you have packed in their entity.

For vanilla df:
[USE_GOOD_WOOD] tag determines if they will bring Feather Tree logs (EVIL for Glumprong).
[USE_GOOD_PLANTS] is for Sunberries (EVIL is for Sliver barb).
[USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS] Charcoal, ash, lye and potash. Haven't seen anyone bring this 'randomly', so propably it determines if you can ask for that stuff via entity guild representative.
[RIVER_PRODUCTS] Will bring you river fish. [OCEAN_PRODUCTS] - ocean fish.
[SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING] Will bring silk and gcsilk thread/cloth (and finished clothes with conjunction with proper clothing tags). Also, with [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS], various leather clothes (giant bat leather, cave crocodile leather and so on).
[CLOTHING] Rope reed thread/cloth (and finished clothes with conjunction with proper clothing tags).
[ANIMAL_PRODUCTS] Meat, leather, milk and cheese.
[OUTDOOR_FARMING] They bring aboveground plants (Fisher berries, longland grass etc.)
[INDOOR_FARMING] They bring undergrounds plants (dwarven plants)

Also, for example, they must have [PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER] if you want clothes, [PERMITTED_JOB:CHEESE_MAKER] for cheese and so on.

People often just copy all job permissions and the community screams 'oh modded races just love bringing you cheese'

[Kaelem Gaen]

So, simply by applying "Woodcutter" and giving them a prefered  Wooded Biome (forest/Jungle that type) They should technically bring a crap load of wood?   cause the  Kobolds have "chopper (Woodcutter) but never bring wood, however there prefsite I believe is cave and therefore they don't do much in the way of woods clearing, hmm... wonder if I can make a race of scavangers who settle in town ruins.