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[MrWiggles]

I don't see how to find answers one must always look to god. There can be morals without religion. IMHO, when people look to god they're just looking for a way to have no responsibility for their actions.

Or an easier route of absolution of their actions.

[Cheeetar]

By one philosophy, I did not mean that that would be the single philosophy upheld by an atheist, merely that atheism itself only encompasses one philosophy.

[Andir]

I don't see how to find answers one must always look to god. There can be morals without religion. IMHO, when people look to god they're just looking for a way to have no responsibility for their actions.

Or an easier route of absolution of their actions.

I wouldn't trust someone who's only motivation for not cheating is punishment from their invisible friend.  I would however trust someone who's motivation for not cheating is their own conscience.

I wouldn't trust someone who's only motivation for not killing is punishment from their invisible friend.  I would however trust someone who's motivation for not killing is their own conscience.

[chaoticag]

I'm sure the religious have their own conscience. God is more of the overide switch though.

[Leafsnail]

Religious people definately have their own set of morals.  How do we know?  Because they don't follow their religious texts literally.  They pick and choose sensible verses.  What do they use to pick sensible verses?  Ah yes, their set of morals.

In my opinion, this reflects very well on religious people, although not so well on the scriptures themselves.

[chaoticag]

True, and there is also their approach to things.

My mother is extremely religious, and says that praying is the only thing that seperates us from infidels nd hell. My aunt (cousin, actually, but she acts as if she is my aunt) and her husband are also religious, and say that they want you to be with them when they go to paradise.

[Jude]

The movement in western religion (over you know, the past 2500 years, but still) from focusing on this life to focusing on some mystical afterlife is regrettable. Old Testament-era Judaism didn't even have an afterlife; "salvation" meant God would rescue you from whatever bad situation you were in.

I wish more Christians were like that. Then they might spend their time trying to help other people in this life instead of just living as comfortably as possible and praying so they can go to heaven. Jesus didn't mean the afterlife when he was talking about the kingdom of heaven, that's why he told the disciples they would see the kingdom in their lifetimes.

[Realmfighter]

People seek justification. I'm not just talking about justification for there actions which would otherwise be unthinkable and morally wrong, but for there lives as well.

[Sergius]

Found some very wise words:

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-faith-column/2007/04/god-atheist-believe-belief

"I'm guessing that the majority of readers lack a belief in Zeus or Thor or Huitzilopochtli. We don't think twice about not believing in them and it would be absurd and time-consuming to work through all of the many thousands of deities that have been revered throughout history and refute their existence in turn.

So there's not much point in proving that Zeus or the Tooth Fairy don't exist. Similarly, there is no onus on atheists to prove that the Christian God, Allah, Vishnu etc. do not exist. The burden of proof is on the people claiming that these things exist. Some atheists take this a step further and say that they know there is no god. Since the burden of proof is on the believer, I don't see a need to positively affirm that there is no god, just as I don't need to prove that there are no faries at the bottom of my garden.

Monotheists reject all other gods but their own. I just happen to believe in one less god than they do."

[chaoticag]

That about sums everything I believe in. Minus the whole burden of proof thing, since I care more about how people act versus the content of their belief set.

[Sergius]

And you probably like cheeseburgers, except for the cheese, and the bread. And the meat. But you like the ka-ching sound the register makes when you buy it 

[MrWiggles]

That about sums everything I believe in. Minus the whole burden of proof thing, since I care more about how people act versus the content of their belief set.

I think to that as well. However, one must not forget that belief can influence actions.

[Fooj]

@Cheeetar: I actually consider the opposite. That religion encourages people to be more responsible for their actions because they are always being judged.

@Leafsnail: I'd like to add that many of the intolerant religious people tend to justify their actions with direct quotes from their scriptures.

@Jude: I'm not that familiar with the old testament, but it also involved a lot of intolerance and violence in it's history and it's laws. I wasn't aware it encouraged people to be more actively helpful. Do you have some examples from the text? I'm not certain that the "God will rescue us from our problems" mentality matches with the "We solve our own problems". Don't forget the missionary efforts of modern Christianity that involves building infrastructure in under developed countries. Old school Jewish people kept to themselves if I know my history. If they helped anyone more than Christians do now, it was only other Jews.

@Trolling:'Amusing' to read as that was, I get what he was saying should be done. I do find clusters of almost nazi-like atheists in corners of the internet that should be broken up. No, he was trolling back in his first half here before he apologized for being rash and before the (intoxicated?) rambling. I think generalization based insults should be the cut-off point before a trolling warning. Would have saved more time.

[MrWiggles]

Hey Fooj, where did you get your avatar?

[Jude]

@Jude: I'm not that familiar with the old testament, but it also involved a lot of intolerance and violence in it's history and it's laws. I wasn't aware it encouraged people to be more actively helpful.

Well it doesn't necessarily, I was talking more about how it's focused on this life instead of saying that life is essentially not real and just a preparation for the afterlife

Don't forget the missionary efforts of modern Christianity that involves building infrastructure in under developed countries.

Sure but that's a minority of Christians. Most just go to church on Sunday and get hot and bothered about gay marriage or women's sexual liberation and tell their kids not to say things like "fuck" or "Oh my God."

That minority, of course, are a little closer to what Jesus was actually about