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Author Topic: Food for the perpetually hungry  (Read 12067 times)

Nikov

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #90 on: March 03, 2010, 07:02:01 pm »

Bullion. Buillion. Billion. Brown salt.

Granted you are a vegetarian. However I would like us to explore why. Is it because of your mother's influence? A personal adversion to killing animals to sustain yourself? Simply not being able to digest it? You've probably mentioned it earlier, but I've since forgotten and yes, I am too lazy to look it up.
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Vector

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2010, 07:06:00 pm »

Granted you are a vegetarian. However I would like us to explore why. Is it because of your mother's influence? A personal adversion to killing animals to sustain yourself? Simply not being able to digest it? You've probably mentioned it earlier, but I've since forgotten and yes, I am too lazy to look it up.

1. I'm not really into that whole getting sick thing.
2. My mom and I already argue too much, and I can't take any more.
3. Healthier, in general.
4. I happen to like animals.
5. More sustainable (yeah, I know.  Fertilizer, yadda yadda)
6. Animal cruelty and so on (yeah, I know.  Temple Grandin, yadda yadda)
7. Sheer habit.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Nikov

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2010, 07:27:24 pm »

- I figured as much. I knew a Christian-converted-to-Jew who would get sick off of pork although he'd eaten it "normally" for most of his life.
- I don't mean to sound demonizing, but your mother sounds tyrannical. In your position, I would sincerely consider if obeying her was harmful with regards to diet. Her holding the pursestrings is always a stiff maironette string to dance with.
- I politely disagree. Variety, in general, is better than restrictions.
- I love animals too! I had two pet goats growing up, and loved feeding cows on my grandparents farm. But the goats were for clearing back brush and cows were for slaughter.
- Sustainability is funny, because grazing livestock doesn't require fertilizer, groundwater depletion and generally improves soil, not to mention grazing land around where I live is usually spasely-wooded steep hills you couldn't plow besides.
- Fun thought experiment. How many field mice, moles, voles, rabbits and snakes live in one acre? How many acres of wheat does it take to sustain a human being? How frequently is a bladed spinning death machine of serrated disks dragged through those critters, and what is the casualty rate?
- I would suggest experimenting a little with meat in your diet and see what your body tells you. It might be craving slow-burning fats and protein that fried noodles and rice will just never get you.

Also, I'm curious what race you are. The mentioning that Inuits spend their life in ketosis made me wonder if this isn't quirky genetic traits. Also I can't read this post because the scroll bar is fubared, so this last para is going to be typoriffic. Hell it evenf ubar'd in the edit window. Screw this. You get the kind of typing I gave old telnet muds before client side echo.
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Armok

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #93 on: March 03, 2010, 07:40:21 pm »

- Fun thought experiment. How many field mice, moles, voles, rabbits and snakes live in one acre? How many acres of wheat does it take to sustain a human being? How frequently is a bladed spinning death machine of serrated disks dragged through those critters, and what is the casualty rate?
D:
Now I'm sad... :'(
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Helmaroc

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2010, 07:48:22 pm »

I don't want to get into a fight, but I've always believed that God made animals for people to be in charge of and to eat, therefore any accidental killing of animals or killing of animals to make them into food is justified. Beating your pets and other horrible things like that are still wrong, but the killing to eat doesn't bother me.

Of course this wouldn't apply to atheists/agnostics/etc. which I know there are a number of here.
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Vector

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2010, 08:00:53 pm »

- This is more of a "haven't eaten it for 10 years and don't like the taste anyway" thing, but I digress.
- Yeah, it kind of generally sucks.  I've got only two and a half more years, though, and then I should be home free *crosses fingers*  And yes, I'm already disobeying her as far as diet goes.  I'm just not so keen on disobeying her more, given the frequency with which she asks what I'm eating (doesn't help that I'm practically incapable of lying, outside of bluffing in games).
- Oh, you're right in that variety is better than restrictions.  I'm just thinking in terms of all the heart problems a meat-prone diet has been known to cause.
- Yup, if I were eating free-grazing animals, that would probably feel better to me.  As-is, though, I'd be eating not-so-free-grazing animals, which are much less efficient as far as generalized environmental things go.
- Lots of critters die for me.  Doesn't mean I need to go get more critters dead for my sake.

Dunno... I'll consider it.  Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm caucasian.


I don't want to get into a fight, but I've always believed that God made animals for people to be in charge of and to eat, therefore any accidental killing of animals or killing of animals to make them into food is justified. Beating your pets and other horrible things like that are still wrong, but the killing to eat doesn't bother me.

Of course this wouldn't apply to atheists/agnostics/etc. which I know there are a number of here.

*dingdingding*

I'm a ... never-bothered-ist.  It just didn't seem like a really important question to ask when I was younger, and when I got older I realized I'd always be dissatisfied with the train of logic ("Well, if God created everything, then where did God come from?  How can I believe in something whose existence cannot be proven?").

Sure, use animals as needed.  That's basic logic.  I don't actually need to kill or use animals right now, though.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Solifuge

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2010, 08:06:40 pm »

I think if an animal is treated with respect and appreciation, raising it for food is fine. I do, however, find highly silly is when people get overly zealous about omnivorism OR vegetarianism. It is proven that either can support both healthy and unhealthy lifestyles, in a number of ways. I wouldn't mind continuing the debate about the damages caused by both livestock farming and agribusiness, and how neither are really sustainable in their present forms, but maybe in another thread... I see three hot topics here, all of which could meander into a downard spiral of Forum Flame. Let's not turn this into a soapbox for preaching the Word of Meat to the vegetarians, nor vice versa. :P



(I'm debating this with you only because it's interesting.  If you'd prefer I didn't, I'll stop.)

I'd actually felt bad about derailing the thread and such, but I've been enjoying the discussion so far (Bio/Psych major here, so this is the sort of musing I occupy myself with anyway :P).

Also, doing your own thing is highly respectable; it's the only way to be! Normalcy is an illusion that we tend to cling to, as an anchor by which to measure our differences... some people end up treating it as an ideal instead, though, which renders them unhappy and dysfunctional in trying to be people who they aren't.

It certainly explains why women are considered more 'intuitive' then men. At least in general.

You could argue that it has to do with gender, though many of the differences we assume are hard-coded genetically are more a product of social pressures put on young boys and girls, rather than a genetic disposition. Hormones do, however, play a role in how we think, and face challenges. I'm mid to low on the testosterone scale, have been told I'm rather effeminate for a guy: concordantly I tend toward intuition and rational understanding rather than "Grrr Smash" problem solving.
Spoiler: Speaking of which... (click to show/hide)

It might have more to do with Myers-Briggs archetypes than gender, though. I straddle the boarder between INTP/INFP, which puts me somewhere between Absentminded Professor and Idealist. I tend to internalize knowledge so that it becomes second nature, but unless a lot of other knowledge is built on top of it, I tend to leave my assumptions mutable.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #97 on: March 03, 2010, 08:08:15 pm »

Where did this happen Solifuge? I don't remember you ever being referred to as a she, and I never thought of you as female.
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Helmaroc

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2010, 08:09:43 pm »

*dingdingding*

I'm a ... never-bothered-ist.  It just didn't seem like a really important question to ask when I was younger, and when I got older I realized I'd always be dissatisfied with the train of logic ("Well, if God created everything, then where did God come from?  How can I believe in something whose existence cannot be proven?").

Sure, use animals as needed.  That's basic logic.  I don't actually need to kill or use animals right now, though.

Yeah, that was my guess, with you being the genius math student  :)
Thanks for not shooting me down, I just wanted to share my view on the subject.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2010, 08:10:15 pm »

Nikov, if you really want I can quote you a bunch of statistics on how you can produce (if I recall accurately) roughly 100 times the amount of grain as you can meat with a particular amount of land and resources. They're posted on little signs scattered around my campus.

I'm not a vegetarian because sustainability and "man, this tastes good" clash and my self-interest wins out, but I acknowledge that demand for meat (NOT THE EATING OF MEAT ITSELF, the DEMAND for the meat) harms the environment.

But honestly, I'm still pissed that my University is showing its support for hippie pressure groups requesting Meatless Mondays in the Dining Commons by institutionalizing them, because the last fucking thing I need to start my school week is a day without delicious dead animals, regardless of environmental impact.

Solifuge: I figured they just had you confused with Sonearage or something. But we still wub joo.
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Armok

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2010, 08:13:47 pm »

...also, if just for a short time, I finally knew what it felt like to be loved by Teh Internets... :'(
Aww, I still wuves you! ;) *Hug*
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Mephansteras

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2010, 08:33:39 pm »

Where did this happen Solifuge? I don't remember you ever being referred to as a she, and I never thought of you as female.

Happened with one of the Mafia games/discussions, I think. I typically refer to everyone as 'he' unless I get some indication otherwise, at which point I refer to the person as 'she'. I generally assume that if I refer to someone with the incorrect gender they'll correct me if they care.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2010, 12:07:08 am »

I've considered taking on the female guise in MMORPGs for the free stuff, but I've never actually done it.
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Vector

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2010, 12:14:16 am »

It certainly explains why women are considered more 'intuitive' then men. At least in general.

You could argue that it has to do with gender, though many of the differences we assume are hard-coded genetically are more a product of social pressures put on young boys and girls, rather than a genetic disposition. Hormones do, however, play a role in how we think, and face challenges. I'm mid to low on the testosterone scale, have been told I'm rather effeminate for a guy: concordantly I tend toward intuition and rational understanding rather than "Grrr Smash" problem solving.

[...]

It might have more to do with Myers-Briggs archetypes than gender, though. I straddle the boarder between INTP/INFP, which puts me somewhere between Absentminded Professor and Idealist. I tend to internalize knowledge so that it becomes second nature, but unless a lot of other knowledge is built on top of it, I tend to leave my assumptions mutable.

Interesting.  I have the relatively long ring fingers that are supposed to indicate high prenatal testosterone; as far as social pressures go, I've never had a female friend and so most of my influences were male.  As what may or may not be a result, my problem-solving style is something of a combination between RAWR SMASH and careful thought.  I guess my tendency is to start with an intense initial attack, then back off a bit to consider the situation once I think I've gotten all the pieces I need to move on.  Brute-forcing problems is generally not in my nature, but my approach tends to be more active and aggressive than most.

I don't actually know what my type is, given that I don't really trust online tests... but if you believe them (and my evaluation of myself), I ride the border between INTJ/INTP (a bit heavier on the J side).  I always plan things out, but then I break the plans when I think up something better/realize the plan was unrealistic.  I'm also one of those encyclopedia of knowledge people (and have been accused of both living room lawyering and talking like a dictionary).  I have the extreme self-confidence and the extreme self-doubt--I'm always looking for holes in theories and worrying about things, but once I'm done checking everything over a few times I'm quite certain about what I say.

*shrug*  I guess I'm really lucky and/or unlucky, given the sorts of mental arguments I get into with myself between the two poles.


Yeah, that was my guess, with you being the genius math student  :)
Thanks for not shooting me down, I just wanted to share my view on the subject.

Sure, stick around!  It's nice to hear what other folks have to say.


I've considered taking on the female guise in MMORPGs for the free stuff, but I've never actually done it.

Hah, I pretended to be male (at B12) for half a year because I didn't want any special attention.  It was awesome :D


Where did this happen Solifuge? I don't remember you ever being referred to as a she, and I never thought of you as female.

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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Pandarsenic

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Re: Food for the perpetually hungry
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2010, 12:25:22 am »

Mmm, last I checked on an online thingy I was an ENFP.

Vector, I seem to be something of an inversion of you in that respect - male with mostly (not only though) female friends (every one of my "closest" friends, the ones I talk to when something is really bugging me or whatever, is female) who tends towards a thoughtful approach to problem-solving, where I prefer to approach things going off my intuition, which invariably leads me to very nonstandard solutions. I think this tendency even shows in my game playstyles somewhat - in TF2 I use the spah, who focuses on indirect attacks, deception, and hair-trigger instincts. In games where I can attack indirectly or in unconventional ways, I like to do things that drive people off-balance (like dropping from ceilings on them, climbing into ridiculous places for ambushes, the like).
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