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[druid91]

Okay, so Ive got a fort that I'm playing in relentless assault and the sieges are finally getting good, I am planning on,and have already started, paving over the sky and putting drop stations in the underside of the barrier and barracks on top.
The other thing I want is bunkers that are accessed through underground tunnels.
The idea is that melee dwarves get dropped in to chutes onto chained animals who protect them from the fall and then they run out into combat.
This will all be centered around something to attract siegers to the center.
So does anyone have a pillbox or bunker design that they would be willing to let me adapt?
Also Ive heard a lot about filling the bunker with bolts, how do you do this without making it ridiculously huge?

[PhilbertFlange]

While I have no bunker designs, the easiest way to stockpile a boatload of bolts in a bunker is to dump them in a one-tile garbage dump. Simply unforbid them when you have enough dumped.

A few caveats with this approach. For multiple bunkers, you'll have to ensure that only one dump is active at any time (this also goes for any stone or refuse dumps). Second, you'll have to remove your bolt stockpiles, or else the bolts will just get hauled back again when you unforbid them. Third, you'll have to always remember to unforbid before a siege.

[UristMcGunsmith]

How do the dwarfs fall? A lever connected to some sort of hatch?

[druid91]

a floor hatch connected to a lever.
   @_L
   H__

L=lever
@dwarf
H=hatch
_=wall/floor   

[Rat Of Wisdom]

I humbly request movies of dorfs falling from a paved sky into combat at ground level, and walking away no worse than stunned just because there's a Stray Horse at the bottom, because my disbelief at this point needs around as much suspension as the Golden Gate Bridge.

Or you could mean something totally other in which case I humbly request clarification.

[Aspgren]

if I may make a suggestion? the dwarves risk missing the chained animals at ground level. and ambushers can show up and put a few bolts in them before you have time to react.

There's a way to avoid this.

_@_L
_H__
_@__
_H__

Simply make a double drop pod. As you build it you connect the lever so it opens both hatches simultaneously. (dont worry about reloading, if designated as a pit the dwarf just throws the animals down the hatch even if its closed) The animal and the dwarf get dropped at the same time and .......... oh wait. that doesnt work the animal will be crushed and then the dwarf will too.

How about this. Dogs are natural swimmers. If there's a pool at the bottom the dog won't take damage from the fall, he will stop at the surface.

hm. I suppose you could just train your dwarves to swim and then put a pool down there for him to land in. I'm rambling. Your own design will most likely work greatly. Keep us updated. 

[Chaoseed]

hm. I suppose you could just train your dwarves to swim and then put a pool down there for him to land in. I'm rambling. Your own design will most likely work greatly. Keep us updated. 

Dwarven high divers?

[Sphalerite]

How about this. Dogs are natural swimmers. If there's a pool at the bottom the dog won't take damage from the fall, he will stop at the surface.

Experiments suggest that water doesn't actually break falls in DF.  It's likely that the dog will take the full falling damage anyway.

[Quietust]

If the animals are surrounded by walls and pet-impassable doors, then it should keep them in position so your soldiers don't miss them and crater instead.

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[druid91]

I humbly request movies of dorfs falling from a paved sky into combat at ground level, and walking away no worse than stunned just because there's a Stray Horse at the bottom, because my disbelief at this point needs around as much suspension as the Golden Gate Bridge.

Or you could mean something totally other in which case I humbly request clarification.

No you got it about right, I will rig up a tester but when I tried it at lower distances(leg breaking) it worked fine, and I know it was leg breaking because I let the animals out and tried it again. the only time I tried from paved sky height I lost a lye maker because the catcher dwarf fell asleep. (used execution platform due to laziness so I couldn't get an animal to stay still long enough)
this time in the name of dwarven safety I will use captured lizardmen as opposed to productive citizens.
Also how do you post videos?

if I may make a suggestion? the dwarves risk missing the chained animals at ground level. and ambushers can show up and put a few bolts in them before you have time to react.

Thats why I was going to attach them to the outside of the crossbow bunker, so that I could build a sort of chimney thing to keep them from getting at the animal.
Though you're double pod idea could work for launching multiple dwarves into the chutes at once....

[Aspgren]

How about this. Dogs are natural swimmers. If there's a pool at the bottom the dog won't take damage from the fall, he will stop at the surface.

Experiments suggest that water doesn't actually break falls in DF.  It's likely that the dog will take the full falling damage anyway.

oh but it does. I tried it before with a swimming pool, but that wasn't a very good distance .. I tried it now with a higher drop.

get this. a cat is dropped 4 z levels and hits the ground. it is lightly wounded. another cat is dropped 5 z levels, one of which is water - he is also lightly wounded.
a THIRD cat is dropped 6 z levels, of which TWO are water. he is uninjured. to make sure this isn't an anomaly i drop him again. 3 times. same result.
i try dropping him into the 5 z level, one of which is water.. he lands on his neck. he's lightly wounded but the nerve damage won't go away

so. if you just make a deep pool and drop them they should be alright! (they're still drowning when stunned though)

[Sphalerite]

From what I've observed, it appears that falling through layers of water doesn't cause additional damage like falling through layers of air does, but doesn't cancel out the layers of air fallen through either.  I had a dwarf knocked off a bridge 1 layer above a ten layer deep cistern.  He survived the fall with nothing more than stun, then drowned.  On the other hands falling ten Z-levels into one level deep water is still fatal.  I suspect that a fall of twenty Z-levels, ten of them through air and ten through water, will be just as fatal as a drop of ten levels through air alone, but I haven't tested it yet.

[Aspgren]

From what I've observed, it appears that falling through layers of water doesn't cause additional damage like falling through layers of air does, but doesn't cancel out the layers of air fallen through either.  I had a dwarf knocked off a bridge 1 layer above a ten layer deep cistern.  He survived the fall with nothing more than stun, then drowned.  On the other hands falling ten Z-levels into one level deep water is still fatal.  I suspect that a fall of twenty Z-levels, ten of them through air and ten through water, will be just as fatal as a drop of ten levels through air alone, but I haven't tested it yet.

alright. hold on i'll build the pillar larger and throw the cat to his death.

Rambling as I perform the tests:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: the top buildable level of the test area is +15. the bottom of the pool is -2. it is still 2 Z levels deep. So depending on how you count, it's a 17-18 Z level fall.
 the cat died on impact. and how! he blew to pieces!

 due to my own stupidity i have embarked on a tripple-layer aquafier. i can't fill up as big of a pool as i like. but i could throw a cat 9 Z levels. 3 of which were water. the cat was seriously injured. the math is the same. a third of the fall was water... so I suppose this means that water dampens the fall to a limited extent. but since you accelerate when you fall the pool might need to be deeper?

trying 7 z level fall with 3 levels water. and 8/3 z level fall. the dwarves are being pestered by the wildlife and three have been scared into the pool and drowned... the results: the cat is -unharmed- after the 7/3 fall. but lightly wounded after 8/3. i will now compare to a 7/2 fall.

at this point the cat is desperately trying to outrun the dwarves. and indeed! at the 7/2 fall, the cat is wounded!

Results:
Fall - depth - Unhurt?
04 - 0 - no
05 - 1 - no
06 - 2 - yes
07 - 2 - no
07 - 3 - yes
08 - 3 - no
09 - 3 - hell no
18 - 2 - SPLAT
20 - 10 - yes

The water appears to dampen the fall. but the further the fall, the higher the velocity - and consequently the more water needed to dampen it. So this might not be very good for your design at all.

in the name of science cats were hurt and killed! today is a success!

end note. one of my dwarves is a novice swimmer. i threw him into the 7-3. he is lightly wounded from the fall. you need to swim well to benefit from the dampening

FINAL EDIT: i had to try the 20/10 drop so i made a new embark. i just -had- to still my curiosity. i'm done now. honest.

[Sphalerite]

Interesting.  So falling through water does appear to cancel to some degree falling through air.  Would be interesting to find out what the ratio is.

[Blargityblarg]

I think discoveries like this, in conjunction with the d#'s and DF Talk are why the 40d release cycle hasn't resulted in an angry mob; we just keep finding stuff out. Yay Dwarven Science!