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[Ghostpaw]

So right now it's way to easy to get dwarves to ecstatic.  So I propose that dwarves can only get above "quite content" if they experience things that involve their likes.  
For example, a dwarf that likes aluminum will be boosted past the "quite content" mood by examining an aluminum door.  Another example is that a dwarf that likes dogs will become happy after adopting a dog assuming that dwarf already reached its max in "quite content".  Another example is that a dwarf that likes working outdoors will only get mood boosts past quite content by feeling satisfied with his work that he had to accomplish outdoors.  
This will solve the strangeness of dwarves seemingly becoming to happy despite their current circumstances.  Like how some dwarves are ecstatic even if they sleep on the floor, and only eat plump helmets all the time.  Unless of course they like plump helmets which one dwarf I had did.  As you can imagice that person was extremely easy to keep happy.

[Neonivek]

Just wait until your economy activates...

Basically the game functions where: As long as nothing bad happens no one should get angry.

However when Nobility, sieges, random animal attacks, cave-ins, Economy, and any other aspect gets involved you will be thanking Armok that you built that Aluminum Door.

One tantrum Dwarf is hard enough to deal with... a mass tantrum can be enough to finish your fortress off.

I can't agree or disagree with you... mostly because it has been almost random with me... Ive had games where people got angry for seemingly no reason... and others where I think I just built the dwarf version of heaven.

[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Neonivek ]

[Magnusian]

You haven't experience the dwarven downward spiral of tantrums and the resulting deaths/destruction yet, have you?

This seems like a good idea, but dwarves can be very hard to please sometimes, especially nobles. Sometimes all it takes is one dwarf in a really bad mood (tantrum) to bring down an otherwise happy and productive fortress.

[RPB]

quote:Originally posted by Magnusian:
<STRONG>You haven't experience the dwarven downward spiral of tantrums and the resulting deaths/destruction yet, have you?</STRONG>

Can't say that I have. Ever.

The worst scenario I've seen in my forts was in the old version, when relatively frequent masterpiece loss would insta-tantrum someone and they'd knock out one of my chasm bridges and send several dwarves to their deaths. But even multiple spouse/child/friend deaths rarely knocked anyone below merely being "happy".

[Draco18s]

Get a tantrum death-spiral, fix it, and THEN come talk to us.

[mickel]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>Get a tantrum death-spiral, fix it, and THEN come talk to us.</STRONG>

I managed, through quick and hard decisions, use of doors, and a lucky influx of immigrants at just the right time. It was quite the ride.

I've had the same experience as an above poster - it seems totally random whether dwarves are extatic or miserable, and never in between. I'm not sure what to do about it though.

[Dasleah]

I'd like to see a more realistic way of handling emotional events. I mean, that really has to be one legendary dining room (so legendary that religions are formed around it at the Feast Of The Exquisite North Wall is a Dwarven public holiday) for a Dwarf to be happy about seeing his loved ones murdered by Elephants. I mean, a Dwarf may feel content at admiring items and handiwork, or fulfilled, but they should still feel bad about the death.

So I'd like to see something like a 'Mourning period' that places a cap on how happy a Dwarf can get within a certain time after losing a loved one, to represent that they can be cheered up, but they're still not quite over it.

'Urist has been content lately. He is still mourning a loved one.' or something like that. And it'd take 2-3 months to get over the loss of a friend, and up to a year or more to recover from the loss of a wife or child, and until that mourning period has passed, then they can't reach 'ecstatic'.

Also perhaps a cap on their skills as well? To represent them being distracted and disheartened for a while, and so the quality of their work drops.

[mickel]

I'd also like dwarfs to comfort each other too. And maybe a dwarf that has been stricken with tragedy can be given other work? I don't think relieving a dwarf of work will make them happier, but perhaps give them some therapeutic work... At the very least I'd like to see dwarfs pat each other on the back and go "Damned shame about Urist, man... But at least he gave 'em hell on the way out, just like we always knew he'd do, eh?"

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>Get a tantrum death-spiral, fix it, and THEN come talk to us.</STRONG>

Have enough jail cells and have a fortress guard. Problem solved.

It *IS* too easy to keep dwarves happy right now. I got bored of a fort with around 60 dwarves at one point and used companion to kill half the dwarves (and all their pets). The other half were all still happy or better thanks to a nice dining room, legendary meals, and nice big 4x4 bedrooms for everyone.

I don't mean any offense by this but there is really no nice way to say it - The only people who have trouble with tantrum spirals are either new or are purposely making the game harder for themselves somehow.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by BurnedToast:
<STRONG>Have enough jail cells and have a fortress guard. Problem solved.</STRONG>

At least up until the Fortress Gaurd starts killing people because of all the death.

[Fedor]

Let me try a slightly different position on you folks.

"Dwarven moods - and not just them but other things in DF - tend to be either really easy to deal with, or nearly impossible. There's not enough middle ground, which too often causes frustration for newbies and boredom for veterans. IMHO!"

Other game elements with this syndrome are:
* Farming
* Goblins

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>

At least up until the Fortress Gaurd starts killing people because of all the death.</STRONG>

Never been a big problem for me, honestly. Still, they get thrown in jail along with everyone else so they can cool down a bit. Worse case you have to toss some random dwarf into the guard (which, by the way, gives them a large happy thought to keep their mood up) and have them throw everyone else in jail.

In any case, if you are having mass tantrums you are doing something very wrong anyway.

Edit: unless you mean the fortress guard beating people to death as punishment, in which case: meh. Legendaries are usually tough enough to survive the beating with little to no wounds and who cares if the rabble gets beat to death for throwing a cabinet at some kittens?

[ May 24, 2008: Message edited by: BurnedToast ]

[Duke 2.0]

Solution for fortress guards: Have your milkers and soapmakers start butchering kittens and puppies 'till they just don't care about anything anymore.

Their whole family died, their god just fell out of god-hood and their parent civilization just crumbled? Meh, don't care about much anymore.

But yes, some balancing is expected. Hopefully soon.

[kaypy]

Part of the problem here is that the scale is rather limited:

0 happiness = melancholic
150 happiness = "ecstatic"

In practice, anything below "ecstatic" basically translates as "dangerously unhappy", unless the dwarf is running on default thoughts (babies, new arrivals, etc). My fortress currently averages about 300-400...

[Joseph Miles]

I have a very simple way of preventing tantrums. I make a death chamber, I check people's moods often, anyone who I deem not happy enough is sent to the death chamber. In my forts it doesn't matter if you are interested in happiness, happiness is interested in YOU. Being unhappy is treason