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Author Topic: What disguises fit where?  (Read 3279 times)

jasonred79

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What disguises fit where?
« on: February 19, 2010, 01:23:56 pm »

Well, I would love to have a full list of which disguises fit where, specifically WEAPONS, but I will make do with a short question:

1. Is there any way not to have swords noticed and screamed at? Trenchcoats did not seem to work, despite claims that they work for shotguns and such. Why is this?
2. Is it my imagination or are pistols concealable anywhere?

Also, if you can't conceal swords, what use are sword squads? To march into a Conservative area, hack a few people to death, then leave?
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vagel7

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 02:16:46 pm »

well security and police uniforms can get you to most places.In the sweatshop there is also naked and in the club it's suits. That's all i know.
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Tilla

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 02:18:36 pm »

Police gear definitely works in a lot of places, as does security - but  there are of course exceptions. Of course there are specific uniforms for certain areas - lab coats for the animal testing places and powerplant, judge robes and suits can get through the court house, and so on.
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Kay12

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 03:13:27 pm »

Trenchcoats conceal weapons like SMG, pistols and shotgun, but they aren't a suitable disguise in many places. small weapons can be concealed under almost any clothing.

Here's a (possibly incomplete) list of the disguises in the most relevant sites:

Police station: Police uniforms, Police and SWAT Armor too iirc
Court house: Cheap and expensive suits and dresses work iirc, as do black robe and police stuff too
Cable news, AM radio: Suits, but only expensive works in Cable iirc, security uniforms
Cosmetics, genetics and nuclear plant: Lab coats do the trick here
The generic factories: Work clothes
Sweatshop (aka garment makers): Naked, security uniform
Corporate HQ: Suit, both cheap and expensive
CEO residence: Expensive suit
Intelligence HQ: Black suit

In addition, the police uniform works in most restricted areas. Suits and dresses are interchangeable I think. Also, you need a suit to get in the gentlemen's club unless you have the bouncers as sleepers.
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jasonred79

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 03:14:54 pm »

Well, thanks for replying, but i knew that basic stuff already... besides, clothes are easy to figure out. Basically, try on X clothing, and see if it comes out red, green or yellow in the blank squares, then the marked squares. Anyhow, it's on the wiki.

WEAPONS though are a different cup of tea altogether, since they can apparently be influenced by both location and by clothing.

I repeat... is it possible to weild swords without drawing undue attention?

Also, are pistols *ALWAYS* concealable? Or are they only exposed when your character is naked?
Do masks fulfil any function? I mean, do they actually make your character not get crimes added to their record if they escape the site or something? (I mean, like a robber wearing a ski mask or something)
Also, do masks count as clothes? Or does your squad march in wearing a mask on their face but no pants or shirt?
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 06:41:06 pm »

Pistols are concealable as long as you wear clothing. Swords can't be concealed by anything. So you can equip a thief with a pistol for insurance, but swords are a tactic restricted to when you fully intend to rack up a body count.

A mask implicitly includes clothing. However, masks are (with maybe one exception) not an effective disguise for anything that actually requires a disguise.
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jasonred79

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 07:02:12 pm »

mmm... ok. The thing is, are swords really that overpowered compared to pistols or SMGS or guitars? No? Then why do they have the huge disadvantage of concealability, in gameplay balance terms? ... From a logical standpoint, IIRC they can conceal swords under trenchcoats in movies like Blade and such. Hibino Hareluya can conceal baseball bats in the back of his shirt...
So, what is the use of masks? And Togas?
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 07:09:20 pm »

The thing you're likely to miss when crunching numbers for sword damage is that swords have a strength mod increasing their damage, and they dismember their opponents, allowing easy instant death (head or chest hit) or incapacitation in a single hit. Realistically and in game, a single chop with a sword by a skilled user will do vastly more damage than a single burst of assault rifle bullets.

Masks are slightly useful in interrogations, but no more so than some of the uniforms. Other than that, masks and togas are mechanically useless. That's not stopping you from using them if you like them, however.
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jasonred79

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 07:21:52 pm »

Oh. Erm, realistically, no, a burst of assault rifle bullets will cause rather ridiculous damage. It's hard to compare, because a direct hit from an assault rifle and a direct hit from a sword will kill you, and you can't take more damage than being dead, right? Of course, it all depends on weapon calibre for bullets. For example, elephant guns, well, kill elephants. Which swords can't really do. I believe that assault rifles can also punch through brick walls, which I doubt that most swords can do.

Hmm... as for masks. SHOULD they be implemented as some form of disguise? Or is that just too much effort to code? I don't think it'd be that bad... just code it so that crimes committed while wearing a mask are not recorded onto the list of crimes, unless caught by cops at the site itself.

Yeah... sounds right. If I'm going to be part of a team about to launch a kidnapping, AND I want to walk around town normally for the next month, it stands to reason I would wear a mask to hide my identity, right?
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garfield751

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2010, 01:14:01 am »

Hmm... as for masks. SHOULD they be implemented as some form of disguise?

i like your idea of protecting your liberals identies but if i was wearing a mask wouldent you be stareing at me funny?

Phantom

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 01:46:41 am »

It would be damn strange to have a bunch of people wearing a John F. Kennedy mask.

Swords are just as inconspicuous as an RPG-7.

Togas and other things like Wifebeaters are just put there for flavor.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 02:47:14 am »

Oh. Erm, realistically, no, a burst of assault rifle bullets will cause rather ridiculous damage. It's hard to compare, because a direct hit from an assault rifle and a direct hit from a sword will kill you, and you can't take more damage than being dead, right? Of course, it all depends on weapon calibre for bullets. For example, elephant guns, well, kill elephants. Which swords can't really do. I believe that assault rifles can also punch through brick walls, which I doubt that most swords can do.

There's a difference between penetration and the actual amount of damage inflicted. Rifles have penetration. If the target is standing behind a quarter inch steel wall, an assault rifle will punch through the wall and maim the target, while a sword will break long before the wall will. However, against a human body, the penetrating ability of the assault rifle is largely wasted, because the bullets are going to exit the other side of the person, leaving only a small and narrow channel of injury. This is over-penetration, and it means the vast majority of the energy a bullet carries is not translated into actual injury -- the severity of the injury is going to be roughly proportional to the frontal area of the bullet times the length of the channel. For this reason, a direct hit from an assault rifle won't necessarily kill you. It depends almost entirely on what the bullets hit as they pass through the body. But if they aren't ripping through organs, your chance of survival is actually pretty good with modern medical care.

A single strike with a sword, on the other hand, will impart all of its energy into the body of the target, leaving a very wide and deep injury that doesn't just pierce the body the target, but cut a whole section of it apart. The amount of bleeding is significantly greater, and assuming both weapons hit the same location of the body, your chance of survival is substantially less if the weapon in question is a sword. To get an intuitive sense of this, think about the fact that a sword can realistically decapitate a person, while an assault rifle will only do that in LCS.

I agree that you would not use a sword against an elephant, but I have to disagree that this is a representative analogy that indicates how effective the weapons are against the human body. I know I'm stating the obvious, but an elephant is gigantic. A powerful gun is useful here because it can penetrate the body of the elephant and reach vital organs; a small pistol won't even pass through the human body reliably, and a sword is right out. Even with infinite cutting power, it isn't even large enough to cut all the way through the elephant.

Even with that said, a sword isn't totally incapable of killing an elephant. It's just not a good idea, since you wouldn't be able to reach or penetrate its vital organs as easily. Hacking at the head would help. But more importantly, it would be phenomenally stupid to try to engage in melee with an animal the size of a city bus.

Hmm... as for masks. SHOULD they be implemented as some form of disguise? Or is that just too much effort to code? I don't think it'd be that bad... just code it so that crimes committed while wearing a mask are not recorded onto the list of crimes, unless caught by cops at the site itself.

Yeah... sounds right. If I'm going to be part of a team about to launch a kidnapping, AND I want to walk around town normally for the next month, it stands to reason I would wear a mask to hide my identity, right?

I certainly think using masks to protect your identity, similar to the opening scene of The Dark Knight, is totally reasonable. There are a couple of issues attached to balance. Making masks be very suspicious, like nudity, is pretty easy. The real challenge is letting police try to investigate and track down the masked crime squad despite their use of masks. Masks shouldn't be a perfect defense against identification, and a squad member that rats out a masked superior should let the police still charge the superior for their actions. The game doesn't currently support that much complexity in how it tracks crimes, and that's the biggest problem.
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jasonred79

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2010, 06:07:35 am »

I'm actually surprised that this issue hasn't come up before now. I think in Real Life, before someone robs a bank or something, the first thing they do is get a mask. There's no need for a high level of complexity right now... just balance masks as VERY suspicious, and give them a 75% chance of letting the crimes not be pinned on you. Or some % chance anyhow.
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 07:24:59 am »

That seems like a reasonable approach. Masks would thus be a way to reduce the amount of heat and the criminal sentences generated by an action, but would not get you completely off the hook. The tradeoff would be that you aren't even in disguise when in public, and masks have no armor value. A couple of the other armor types should have the same rules applied.
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Kay12

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Re: What disguises fit where?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 02:43:16 am »

Back to the original post, I'd like to clarify that in my opinion disguises aren't necessary in most situations. When you use firepower, you don't need to and won't always be able to use disguises, and you'll want to use the armors that are available instead. Guitar squads don't really need them either since most good sleeper types can be found in public areas.

When to use disguises, then? Vandalism, robbing the safes, microphone/studio raids (provided neither is ridiculously close to the exit), prison breaks... but in all these cases, you'll do just fine without them if you have guns, unless the power plant button/safe is in that corner that'll take ages to reach and you'd get the conservative response before even getting there. And this doesn't apply to perhaps the most powerful raid, cable/AM since their conservative response can be mowed down by even a half-trained gunsquad.
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