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[MrFake]

Technically, it should only be the ones that create an artifact that get let in.  The fort would run just as smooth without them (which says what about Atlas Shrugged? ).

NW_Kohaku: Why would you need to identify looters/leechers vs. others?  Rand's ideas have no necessity for doing so, since they are an incorporated personal philosophy, completely independent of others.  A John Galt challenge requires as much idealistic characterizations as the unrealistic John Galt, here the player, himself makes.

Hyndis: A fruit picker would be just as worthy as a doctorate engineer, so long as they both produce more than they consume (seriously, few PhD.s ever do).

[Danjen]

Drain the ocean.
Build a city of glass and bronze.
Put your dorfs in big old diving suits.
Turn off the pumps, and let the ocean cover your city.

Would someone kindly do this?

[Hyndis]

Hyndis: A fruit picker would be just as worthy as a doctorate engineer, so long as they both produce more than they consume (seriously, few PhD.s ever do).

Yup, but people in lowly yet vital jobs are commonly derided as being "lazy." Fruit pickers may not require advanced education, training, or get paid a lot, but they are absolutely not lazy.

Actually, on average, the less you make the harder you work. At least that seems the trend. A CEO doesn't do much except make crazy demands, but the lowly grunt worker in the company will likely be busting his ass.

In other words, worth != money.

[absynthe7]

http://www.angryflower.com/atlass.gif

If you want to play DF Atlas Shrugged, kill all dwarves except for nobles. Then learn that Tarn Adams knows more than Ayn Rand.

[orbcontrolled]

design the whole underocean place using Dtil to individually replace water with magma so that I create the whole underwater fortress from scratch.

One tile at a time, oh god don't do it!
If your version works with dtil, then it should still work with tweak and for each tile, which is the only sane way to do map-editing. Look towards the bottom of that page for some examples to get started.

(PM me if you want help.)

Hint:

Code: [Select]

distance_to_cursor > 0
    ...
set_water_level 0;

[bluea]

This whole thing suffers somewhat from the failure to identify who, exactly, you are.

The only noble who is actually, demonstrably, the slightest bit useful is the Dungeon Master. The rest are looters. Looters meet magma.

You aren't supposed to promote people by "class", but instead based upon what they're actually managing to accomplish. A guy who is actively hauling or harvesting full-time isn't a looter or leech. He might not be top tier, but he certainly isn't bottom tier.

Unless you decide: "Hey, this dwarf decided it would be a good idea to build a moat." Then you do actually have some higher level organization going on. But there's no differentiation  between play-digging and digging crucial infrastructure like the moat.

Nor is there any differentiation between deconstructing a random bit of wall (pointless) and deconstructing the Trade Depot from under the Elves (quite profitable, minor externalities).

So:
Nobles: Magma.
Dungeon Master: Magma or nice room, depending on what exactly his mandates are.
Sheriff: Magma.
Hammerer: Magma.
Royal Guard: Magma.
Fortress Guard: Magma.
Champions: Magma. (If they were actually in any danger I might consider them heros, but as it is they pay for nothing and do seconds of work per year.)

Bookkeeper, Manager, Broker, Architect, Mayor: You need to have a day job, because those are way too intermittent to be a full time job.

Elite military: Please just don't become Champions. You can have quite nice places.
Legendary craftsdwarves: Nice places.
Legendary unskilled types: Decent places.
Non-legendary workers: Probation - bare essentials.

The probation types have a year to become legendary or meet magma.

(There's no really good way to do the analysis I'd like though. I'd like to examine each dwarf and see:
Joe the Miner, 75% mining, 10% drinking, 10% sleeping, 5% hiking
Bob the Mason, 10% construction, 20% drinking, 60% partying, 5% sleeping, 5% hiking

Bob meets magma. Joe - skilled or not, doesn't.

[BodyGripper]

That'd be pretty cool, but personally, for the sake of being Atlas Shrugged-ish, I would try to have all the deaths be of starvation, violence, or careless accidents.
Also, I just remembered something I left out of my first post:  Once all the nobles are dead, the Legendaries can come out of their "paradise" and rebuild everything.  Hopefully the hard-working but unskilled dwarves will still be alive, but if not... oh well.

A couple gameplay flaws I've thought about:
1.  The "paradise" will still contribute to Fortress Wealth, but they're supposed to be withholding their talent from society
2.  One of the Legendaries could be elected leader.

I had another, but forgot it...

[NW_Kohaku]

Actually, I thought of a good modification of the challenge which might actually make this whole thing a bit more of a biting criticism of Ayn Rand...

Only the legendaries get seperated.  The initial seperation happens when you start getting the "real" nobles, like the Baron(ess).  The legendaries start a protest movement, and leave to form their own city based solely upon their own talent...

The caveat is that once they have been made legendary, they can only use their legendary skills.  After all, that is what made them qualify.  This will essentially wind up looking like those one job only challenges that already exist.  That means that if there are no woodcutters in the new utopian society, then tough - you don't get wood, enjoy your hard stone floor "bed".  If you don't get farmers, (and I'm fairly sure you're not getting butchers) you might just wind up starving.

Also, no staving off the arrival of the nobles to get more legendaries.  If you can't get baron(ess) by year 4 (or at least 5), you are disqualified.  REAL capitalists can generate the kind of fortress value that attracts nobles in their sleep!

Can YOU survive purposefully collapsing society just to prove how oh-so-special you really are?

[riznar]

I like you Kohaku

[NW_Kohaku]

Keep in mind that all artifacts will qualify you as a legendary... and you cannot get fey moods for farming, woodcutting, fishing, mining, cooking, brewing, or many of the other basic necessities. 

I'm sure those masterwork puzzleboxes will do you a whole lot of good in your completely sealed-off city, where you're not even trading.  Yeah, you're a real pillar of your society now.

[Kadath]

The caveat is that once they have been made legendary, they can only use their legendary skills.  After all, that is what made them qualify.  This will essentially wind up looking like those one job only challenges that already exist.  That means that if there are no woodcutters in the new utopian society, then tough - you don't get wood, enjoy your hard stone floor "bed".  If you don't get farmers, (and I'm fairly sure you're not getting butchers) you might just wind up starving.

You haven't read the book, have you?  In it, the people who escape from society become basic stuff like farmers and shopkeepers.

I would suspect Rand would have wanted all your initial dwarves executed, due to their being Communists.

I understand you where exaggerating a bit... But seriously, most peoples critique of Rand on the internet is about things she did not support.

[bluea]

There seems to be quite a bit of weirdness in perception here.

Applied to my mature forts, the split would yield a completely functional fort, and a completely dysfunctional fort. Even with several explicitly different "split mechanisms."

It isn't "Nobles stand" - they're only legendary in their own mind. Can you picture the US Congress shoved into a fort? They'd spend the next three years crafting lawsuits against one another and hamming it up for the observation camera.

If one says "Legendary for any reason, may only work in their field (or hauling the raw materials/results)", I get this split:

Fort One: Planters, brewers, butchers, weavers, dyers, clothiers, miners, woodcutters, herbalists, wood burners, furnace operators, lye/ash makers, metalsmiths, armorers, weaponsmiths, glassmakers, masons, engravers, tanners, leatherworkers, bonecrafters, stonecrafters, architect/manager/broker, mechanic, crossbowdwarves.

Fort two: Nobles, champions, cheese makers, soap makers, pump operators, siege engineers, animal trainers, animal husbandry, lever pullers, and random peasants.

Split two. You must become legendary the hard way, with artifacts just being sheer luck that should be discarded from consideration.

Fort Three: Planters, brewers, butchers, weavers, dyers, clothiers, miners, woodcutters, herbalists, wood burners, furnace operators, lye/ash makers, metalsmiths, armorers, weaponsmiths, glassmakers, masons, engravers, tanners, leatherworkers, bonecrafters, stonecrafters, architect/manager/broker, mechanic, crossbowdwarves.

Fort Four: Nobles, champions, cheese makers, soap makers, pump operators, siege engineers, animal trainers, animal husbandry, lever pullers, random peasants, and artificers. (Like three masons, ten stonecrafters, three bonecrafters, a weaponsmith, a maybe a jeweler.)

At least for my forts I'd be pretty happy continuing with the Galt-types. The hauling is the one key piece, but the key guys (planter, brewer, cook) are fast enough they can do their own hauling really. And there's no such thing as a Legendary Hauler - although it would be the first idiot to invent the wheelbarrow. (And I'd give him a tickertape parade myself.)

And actually butcher is actually quite easy if you embark somewhere that the goblins are going to be riding in on Beak Dogs. The first siege had me drafting six butchers and six tanners - and not clearing the backlog before the next siege. All legendaries in short order.

[Skooma]

Is the dwarf not entitled to the booze of his fields?

No says the man in the office it belongs to the nobles!

Is the fortress not entitled to the redacted of their lands?

No says the man in the Mountainhomes it belongs to the King!

[Radivnal]

Drain the ocean.
Build a city of glass and bronze.
Put your dorfs in big old diving suits.
Turn off the pumps, and let the ocean cover your city.

Would someone kindly do this?

Clever clever clever, Mr. Fontaine. :p

[DocFaustus]

I can certainly see that working, but lets take it one step further
Drain the ocean.
Build a city of glass and bronze.
Put your dorfs in big old diving suits.
Turn off the pumps, and let the ocean cover your city.

Urist McRyan has canceled build Objectivist utopia: has gone stark raving mad!