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[Shadowclaimer]

Material type definitely needs to be factored in somewhere along the line.

I can't find a link anywhere, but I was watching a TV show where a couple of archeologists were testing out a copper chisel on limestone, carving a replica of the spinx's nose. They'd literally make three or four hits with it and the point would be blunted, and the chisel itself bent. Then they would have to reheat the chisel and pound it back into shape using their improvised hammer (aka a rock). Repeat ad infinitum. Not only should copper tools (and maybe some of the other stuff...I don't know enough about the properties of bronze or iron) take longer to perform tasks with, but they should wear out or require maintenance frequently.

Yeah, this is pretty much the problem I have, and what I was talking about before.  (And yes, I can read, thank you very much...)  I think there are already too many materials that can be used to make tools that simply would not handle the abuse.  Copper picks?  I don't even think bronze picks should cut it.  Even iron picks will likely break down after not too much use against hard stone without repairs.  After all, forges can only be made of iron or steel.  There should just be a minimum material durability for different types of jobs, and picks definitely take plenty of strain.

I would strongly recommend against tools breaking/wearing out frequently during jobs unless we had automated repair jobs as well.  I would loathe the notion of running an entire fortress but constantly being forced to check miners for idlers because they broke their picks, then being forced to go to the smelter/order a craftsdwarfshop to manually tell them to repair it.

Yea as much as I'd love durability, the problem I do see is the sheer ridiculous amount of micromanagement required to keep up with it.

[Draco18s]

My first reaction is...  why is platinum giving a massive bonus effectively double steel, and half adamantium?

Quoted because it hasn't been answered yet and I too wonder why this is.

[Shadowclaimer]

My first reaction is...  why is platinum giving a massive bonus effectively double steel, and half adamantium?

Quoted because it hasn't been answered yet and I too wonder why this is.

It has been answered, and quoted.

Quote from: SirHoneyBadger on February 16, 2010, 04:24:06 PM

    Other than major differences, like soft wood compared to copper, or copper compared to steel, in my opinion, quality should be the biggest factor where tools are concerned. This considers that at some point, tools will probably begin to fail, based on their material strength.

    So you might have a copper chisel that works just as well as a bronze one, but needs constant resharpening.


    And if you'll please read the post, NW_Kohaku, you'll find that the materials listed are from a mod, they're not a suggestion.


Yep

"Note these Speed Rates are using modifications I've done to my own files, the ones followed by a number that's the full amount (IE: 60 (+60)) are ones i've added, feel free to ignore them, the others show minor tweaks due to my OCD on intervals of 2/5."

The mod was mostly done because the fortress I had had tons of rare metals but none of the tool/weapon/armor worthy ones. Also to note, I was basing it on the metal's hardness scale on the Mohs measurements which is probably highly incorrect since it doesn't take into account actual forging, I intended to update it later when I had an accurate scale of strengths after they are forged, but yea it has nothing to do with the suggestion, just includes my personal notes from another file.

[Draco18s]

It has been answered, and quoted.

Thanks.  It was answered indirectly, so the words I was looking for didn't really show up anywhere.

[Shadowclaimer]

It has been answered, and quoted.

Thanks.  It was answered indirectly, so the words I was looking for didn't really show up anywhere.

My apologies, wasn't trying to be stand-offish if it came out as such =P I spent quite a bit of time and research trying to find a proper way to set up metals and compare their strength when forged, but I'm unsure what Toady used for DF's research.

[NW_Kohaku]

I'm not so much suggesting a wear and repair mod, just that tools that are expected to take a serious beating, like picks, should be made of metals with the sort of tensile strength to withstand that beating.  That is, instead of making a silver pick possible, but simply slower, you should simply not be able to use a pick made of silver.  Of the iron and steel picks that are allowable, I'm all for the quality of the tool making a difference in digging speed, although not a truly dramatic one.  Maybe giving them a bonus of half of what the weapons get as a bonus, a maximum of 1.5 times faster/better work than with normal equipment. 

Otherwise, the result would be either painfully slow work early on, or blindingly fast work later on.

(If, however, we ARE talking about wear on tools... Even as it stands, keeping track of picks is fairly difficult, and basically requires the stocks screen and checking what dwarves have mining labor turned on.  That same amount of effort, plus hitting tab, would tell you what the repair levels of those tools are.  Considering as dwarves put on mining duty grab their picks completely on their own (Can you tell me right now where all your spare picks are?  Or do you not care, because they handle it all on their own?), if they simply chucked worn picks back in the pile and grabbed fresh picks, and you had a "repair tool" function at the metalsmith's, which you could simply put on repeat, it wouldn't mean that much more, besides needing a few extra picks handy as secondaries.)

[Shadowclaimer]

Well I have no problem with it really as long as there's a way to mine incredibly slow without a pick (I'd hate for my whole infrastructure to fail early on due to wear and tear).

I usually have a ton of extra picks lying around waiting for migrant miners to use anyway.

[Asteranx]

(I'd hate for my whole infrastructure to fail early on due to wear and tear).

I could easily see one of the reasons that poor quality materials make poor tools being that there has to be a lot of field repair/extra work done - woodworkers would constantly be re-sharpening their axes, etc, so wear and tear could be something factored into whatever level of job enhancement the item provides, rather than making the item useless over time.

It also occurred to me that higher skill dwarves should probably get unhappy thoughts from using sub-par tools.

"Urist McGamer throws his Wiimote through the 'game over' screen - Stupid contorller, no turbo!"

[NW_Kohaku]

Actually, it would be nice for clothing to be repairable, as well...  Especially if there were some kind of fractional accounting of thread, so that it doesn't take up an entire thread/cloth to put a patch on a slightly tattered cloak.

[Shadowclaimer]

Well would this be an automatic thing? Say my Miner's shirt gets a hole in it from mining and rocks hitting it constantly, would he just drop it off at the clothier and go back to mining while he's taking his break next? Then you could set in the orders auto-repair stuff, so that way Urist Mcminer isn't naked mining with his hands and you never get a notice or know.

[NW_Kohaku]

I actually really wish that dwarves would sell back their used clothing... if they get new clothing before I've put up a cabinet in their room, they just dump it on the floor, and never pick it up.  If they were in the barracks, they'll just dump it in the barracks, and it will never be picked up (not even with the Dump command).  If they die...

Anyway, if a dwarf drops their pick (in this case, because it is too worn), they'll go pick up another one (provided one is available).  Preferably, they'll only drop a pick that is worn when a better one is available, however.