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[Shadowclaimer]

TLDR version:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tools/Workshops made from certain materials should get bonuses to speed, Fishing needs its own tool, Toolboxes allow non-tool jobs to have use tools to speed up work.

Tools work faster depending on quality, certain jobs can have a toolbox created for them but are not required (IE: Carpentry, Masonry etc.) and they will work at a base rate without one but at an advanced rate with one.

Certain professions (Mining/Woodcutting) would have a base rate that is just where the miner/woodcutter will pick up a rock or something nearby that is relatively hard, hit a tree a couple million times or a cliff face, and then chop it down or mine it. For Miners and Woodcutters this base speed is terribly slow, so its suggested that asap you get yourself a nice pickaxe.

Note these Speed Rates are using modifications I've done to my own files, the ones followed by a number that's the full amount (IE: 60 (+60)) are ones i've added, feel free to ignore them, the others show minor tweaks due to my OCD on intervals of 2/5.

Tool Speed Bonuses/Rates
-----------------------
Tin: 45% (+45)
Silver: 50% (+50)
Zinc: 55% (+55)
Gold: 60% (+60)
Copper: 65% (-1)
Nickel: 70% (+70)
Brass: 72% (+72)
Bronze: 75%
Bismuth Bronze: 80% (+5)
Nickel: 90%
Iron: 100%
Steel: 133%
Platinum: 250% (+250)
Adamantium: 500%

Tools affected/added by these changes:

Pickaxe
The Pickaxe will mine faster the more powerful the tool you have, current mining rates may have to be slightly modified to balance this out.

Axe
The Axe will chop lumber faster the more powerful the tool you have, Adamantium Axes make you chop lumber so fast every Elf on the face of Ishgabalgure will explode.

Fishing Spear
As Dorfs think that waiting for fish to come to you is a wimpy way of doing it, they have spears. Base fishing still uses their beards to filter fish, but spears allow them to chase down the bastards and catch them. The more powerful the spear the fast the Dwarf can catch his prey.

Toolboxes
These fun little boxes are created by a metalsmith and are used to speed up the jobs some of your dwarfs do. Certain jobs work faster depending on the material used to construct the workshop (Mason Workshop and Carpenter's Workshop are good examples) however if they go construct something like walls or something else none-workshop created they will use their toolboxes.
Professions Affected by Toolboxes: Mason, Engraver, Carpenter, Grower, Herbalist, Milker, Mechanic

Notes: This post was written in notepad before hand, also the search function was used and I do see that there are other posts about this subject, I've taken some ideas from a lot of them to compound into one solid suggestion. The thing is that through this suggestion there will be no more complication or such because you can continue playing your old way and have no loss or gain from it essentially, but if you want to craft those Adamantium Carpenter Tools so your carpenter can construct barrels by the thousands than so be it.

[QuakeIV]

Cool, yeah it makes sense to be able to have people just pick something up and start hitting a tree with it until it falls.

[Kilo24]

This would be pretty good, though it seems like equipment quality should affect it as well.

Not sure I agree with fishing spear being so material-affected, however.  That seems like material might affect whether or not you can hit a fish, and that a poor spear would be a lot better than bare hands, but there shouldn't be a large divide in between the efficiency of a good spear and a poor spear unless the fish are wearing scale mail (or naturally tough, which is a valid fantasy notion).  I'd certainly imagine that adamantium would be worse than wood in a river - the light weight would make the river flow knock the spear all around.

Maybe have the fishing spear's quality, but not the material affect efficiency of fishing.  And have the material wait until it can be modeled by the same combat mechanics for piercing flesh that we now have for dwarves and larger creatures.

[NW_Kohaku]

My first reaction is...  why is platinum giving a massive bonus effectively double steel, and half adamantium? 

Platinum is rare and valuable, and in modern times, has several very important uses (like as the catalyst in a catalytic converter, or the catalyst in other reactions... probably something in a alchemy lab should use platinum as a catalyst... hmm...) however, it's just another rare, shiny metal in the tech level we're dealing with, here.  Just as silver is less powerful than copper, and pure gold is useless as a metal for making weapons (which is somehow up there between copper and bronze, itself) I don't see why platinum is so much better than steel.

All that said, I have to wonder why there would be that much variance based upon metal type... either the metal will hold up to the strain of being a woodchopping axe, or it won't.  Iron and steel and adamantium can get some bonuses for being so resiliant that they can hold a better edge, but I think it better when you can't make a solid gold pickaxe that wouldn't realistically be able to hold an edge.

You might also want to put in an obsidian option for fishing spears...

Anyway, I agree with Kilo in that I think it would probably be better to differentiate more along the lines of equipment quality than material.  If it worked like weapons, a masterpiece pickaxe would cleave through rock at twice the rate of a normal pickaxe, and a masterwork fishing spear would have twice the accuracy.

... Also, is it just me, or does spearfishing not seem all that dwarvenly?  Why do I more get the impression that dwarves would rather just make some sort of weighted nets, and trawl the lake with them?  Preferably by some sort of pully system, so they don't have to get into any kind of devilish boat-like contraption.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Other than major differences, like soft wood compared to copper, or copper compared to steel, in my opinion, quality should be the biggest factor where tools are concerned. This considers that at some point, tools will probably begin to fail, based on their material strength.

So you might have a copper chisel that works just as well as a bronze one, but needs constant resharpening.


And if you'll please read the post, NW_Kohaku, you'll find that the materials listed are from a mod, they're not a suggestion.

[Shadowclaimer]

Other than major differences, like soft wood compared to copper, or copper compared to steel, in my opinion, quality should be the biggest factor where tools are concerned. This considers that at some point, tools will probably begin to fail, based on their material strength.

So you might have a copper chisel that works just as well as a bronze one, but needs constant resharpening.


And if you'll please read the post, NW_Kohaku, you'll find that the materials listed are from a mod, they're not a suggestion.

Yep

"Note these Speed Rates are using modifications I've done to my own files, the ones followed by a number that's the full amount (IE: 60 (+60)) are ones i've added, feel free to ignore them, the others show minor tweaks due to my OCD on intervals of 2/5."

The mod was mostly done because the fortress I had had tons of rare metals but none of the tool/weapon/armor worthy ones. Also to note, I was basing it on the metal's hardness scale on the Mohs measurements which is probably highly incorrect since it doesn't take into account actual forging, I intended to update it later when I had an accurate scale of strengths after they are forged, but yea it has nothing to do with the suggestion, just includes my personal notes from another file.

@Dorfy Fishin'
Why don't we just come together on an agreement and call it Hammerfishing, where a Dwarf gets a Fishing Hammer and waddles out in the water and smashes fish whack-a-mole style and brings back their mangled corpses to be cleaned and fileted.

@Obsidian
I completely forgot it existed, I avoid magma like the plague, I've ruined enough fortresses with water projects, so I pretend it doesn't exist. I'll add it to the list when I find a source that provides actual strength levels for various metals.

@Quoted Post
I actually contemplated moreso a table so the best tools are max quality and material.

[Darkond2100]

@Dorfy Fishin'
Why don't we just come together on an agreement and call it Hammerfishing, where a Dwarf gets a Fishing Hammer and waddles out in the water and smashes fish whack-a-mole style and brings back their mangled corpses to be cleaned and fileted.

Fishinghammer sounds awesome. Of course, with that kind of fishing speed you'd have to delete that thing where rivers run out of fish. Cus, that's really annoying and things would disappear really fast.

[Fossaman]

Material type definitely needs to be factored in somewhere along the line.

I can't find a link anywhere, but I was watching a TV show where a couple of archeologists were testing out a copper chisel on limestone, carving a replica of the spinx's nose. They'd literally make three or four hits with it and the point would be blunted, and the chisel itself bent. Then they would have to reheat the chisel and pound it back into shape using their improvised hammer (aka a rock). Repeat ad infinitum. Not only should copper tools (and maybe some of the other stuff...I don't know enough about the properties of bronze or iron) take longer to perform tasks with, but they should wear out or require maintenance frequently.

[Shadowclaimer]

@Dorfy Fishin'
Why don't we just come together on an agreement and call it Hammerfishing, where a Dwarf gets a Fishing Hammer and waddles out in the water and smashes fish whack-a-mole style and brings back their mangled corpses to be cleaned and fileted.

Fishinghammer sounds awesome. Of course, with that kind of fishing speed you'd have to delete that thing where rivers run out of fish. Cus, that's really annoying and things would disappear really fast.

Honestly I think that's part of the problem with fishing, you don't know how much fishing causes it to be overfished, and if you want to control it in any remote way you'd have to tediously set control zones and disable/enable them when you THINK its close, unless there's some magical "stop before overfishing" button.

Think I'd much prefer if it was just "oh there's water, certain water can have certain fish!" and then boom, if you are fishing there chance to catch fish of type. Rivers, Ponds, Lakes, Freshwater, Saltwater should just all have normal fish and then monster fish (can I say this word in the forums without getting banned? Carp?)

[Ze Spy]

everybody keeps saying carp , and so do i , its always safe to say anything

we still need to make the AL so that dwarfs will ignore the danger of carp and not go "CARP AHEAD , FUCKING RUN" with a dangerous adamatium fishing spear if we are going to put that in the game , and also go " CARP , STAB IT NAOW"

[Shadowclaimer]

Yea I think moreso the problem we hit is the fact that fish spawn, period, creature fish, edible fish, etc. they should be separate classes. Vermin Fish (Carp, monstrous catfish that devour dorfs whole) should spawn like vermin normally do, however edible fish that are caught through fishing should be just randomly generated as the dwarf fishes.

[Asteranx]

Why don't we just come together on an agreement and call it Hammerfishing, where a Dwarf gets a Fishing Hammer and waddles out in the water and smashes fish whack-a-mole style and brings back their mangled corpses to be cleaned and fileted.

While we're at it, let's just agree that the right tool for all jobs is a hammer.

Chopping down trees?  Whack 'em right with your Treehamer and they'll separate into logs by the time they land in your stockpile.

Mining through stone? Don't dig it out, beat it down!  You're not carving the earth, you're denting it.  Bonus: No debris!

Bookkeeping?  Not a problem when everything you have is flat and stackable.

Do I even need to go into the uses of a hammer in the noble profession of Philosophy?  DO I?!?

The only downside I can see is that every meal would be pancakes.

[Shadowclaimer]

Why don't we just come together on an agreement and call it Hammerfishing, where a Dwarf gets a Fishing Hammer and waddles out in the water and smashes fish whack-a-mole style and brings back their mangled corpses to be cleaned and fileted.

While we're at it, let's just agree that the right tool for all jobs is a hammer.

Chopping down trees?  Whack 'em right with your Treehamer and they'll separate into logs by the time they land in your stockpile.

Mining through stone? Don't dig it out, beat it down!  You're not carving the earth, you're denting it.  Bonus: No debris!

Bookkeeping?  Not a problem when everything you have is flat and stackable.

Do I even need to go into the uses of a hammer in the noble profession of Philosophy?  DO I?!?

The only downside I can see is that every meal would be pancakes.

That's a downside? Plump Helmet Pancakes, Carp Pancakes, Dwarf Pancakes, Cat Pancakes.

[NW_Kohaku]

Material type definitely needs to be factored in somewhere along the line.

I can't find a link anywhere, but I was watching a TV show where a couple of archeologists were testing out a copper chisel on limestone, carving a replica of the spinx's nose. They'd literally make three or four hits with it and the point would be blunted, and the chisel itself bent. Then they would have to reheat the chisel and pound it back into shape using their improvised hammer (aka a rock). Repeat ad infinitum. Not only should copper tools (and maybe some of the other stuff...I don't know enough about the properties of bronze or iron) take longer to perform tasks with, but they should wear out or require maintenance frequently.

Yeah, this is pretty much the problem I have, and what I was talking about before.  (And yes, I can read, thank you very much...)  I think there are already too many materials that can be used to make tools that simply would not handle the abuse.  Copper picks?  I don't even think bronze picks should cut it.  Even iron picks will likely break down after not too much use against hard stone without repairs.  After all, forges can only be made of iron or steel.  There should just be a minimum material durability for different types of jobs, and picks definitely take plenty of strain.

That's a downside? Plump Helmet Pancakes, Carp Pancakes, Dwarf Pancakes, Cat Pancakes.

You know, biscuits are already made by mashing things flat... and I believe you can just edit the raws to change "roasts" to "pancakes"

[Kilo24]

Material type definitely needs to be factored in somewhere along the line.

I can't find a link anywhere, but I was watching a TV show where a couple of archeologists were testing out a copper chisel on limestone, carving a replica of the spinx's nose. They'd literally make three or four hits with it and the point would be blunted, and the chisel itself bent. Then they would have to reheat the chisel and pound it back into shape using their improvised hammer (aka a rock). Repeat ad infinitum. Not only should copper tools (and maybe some of the other stuff...I don't know enough about the properties of bronze or iron) take longer to perform tasks with, but they should wear out or require maintenance frequently.

Yeah, this is pretty much the problem I have, and what I was talking about before.  (And yes, I can read, thank you very much...)  I think there are already too many materials that can be used to make tools that simply would not handle the abuse.  Copper picks?  I don't even think bronze picks should cut it.  Even iron picks will likely break down after not too much use against hard stone without repairs.  After all, forges can only be made of iron or steel.  There should just be a minimum material durability for different types of jobs, and picks definitely take plenty of strain.

I would strongly recommend against tools breaking/wearing out frequently during jobs unless we had automated repair jobs as well.  I would loathe the notion of running an entire fortress but constantly being forced to check miners for idlers because they broke their picks, then being forced to go to the smelter/order a craftsdwarfshop to manually tell them to repair it.