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Author Topic: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war  (Read 2378 times)

Funk

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Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« on: February 15, 2010, 11:58:23 pm »

Mercenaries are in short hired soldiers.

mercenary bands are formed in world gen and can be hired in fort in fort and adventur mode.

merc are hired at the trade deport,costs is based on:
size of the band
skills and kills of it members
time, mercenaries work per season
fort death rate

mercenaries don't pay for food,drink or rooms

pay at the end of term
kill bonus's
unhealed wounds and deaths

failing to pay the cost can lead to:
the mercs leave but join next attack
the merc steal some items and leave
the mercs attack you.

 Mercenaries shoud start with skill around competent or professional level
often in skills that take time or are hard to train
 so hireing a small band to help train up your first troops will be a good idea.

there items based on there history and members origin.

members can be any creature that can lean,speak and equip items.

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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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The_Kakaze

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 03:02:06 pm »

I like it, especially if the player can make his own mercenary band in adventure mode!  Perhaps you could get armor and training for your party this way, too.
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Anything that happens in your land is your fault.  If the merchants decided to show up next to a volcano and jump in, it would still (somehow) be your fault.  If their liaison dies of old age on your doorstep, it's your fault.  If you accidentally lock the elves in the depot and wait until they're insane to capture them in cages and then lock the next group of elves in the depot and unleash the insane elves their cages, that's still somehow your fault.

Dvergar

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 10:38:14 pm »

They could be above the law, or recieve very unhappy thoughts about their soldier-buddies being punished.
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Misterstone

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 11:57:04 am »

I am sure mercenaries will have their place sooner or later.  However, a dwarf outpost would have to be nuts to hire people like this.  I mean, just image: you have this huge fortress full of golden statues, gems, masterwork weapons and armor, and you bring in a band of armed warriors to protect you for a few dwarfbucks each week?  Bad bad idea...
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Shadowclaimer

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 12:53:28 pm »

I think moreso they should be like a commodity, when a caravan comes they bring Mercenary Contracts from their home race, and when you purchase one (IE: Trade goods for one) you get them for the amount of time designated and you can order them around like a squad and they'll show up in the screen and all that fun stuff.

Equipment is locked, classes are locked etc.

I'd easily trade a crapton of that gem-studded Chert Jewelry for a band of human warriors outside my fort for a few seasons.
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MUAHAA THE FRENCH

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 01:01:01 pm »

a dwarf fortress doesn't have money, unless it's mandated you pay them in coins. you should be able to trade for mercenaries with the assumption that the goods are traded for $$$. mercenaries should be hired on a contractual basis (IE - hire for a set period of months with option to extend contract with a prompt at end of year) and depending on the quality of the mercenaries a percentage of the funds will be paid up front, and a percentage upon the completion of the contract. high quality mercenaries will demand up to 50% pay before entering service.

mercs should be very likely to tantrum and steal with higher quality mercs being less likely to do so. mercs are by default Above the Law with the option to turn this off, the end result being an imprisoned merc and his friends will receive VERY unhappy thoughts. if the Hammerer reaches a merc first they will fight with a chance of triggering all mercs to Hostile. a mercenary who is unable to leave upon the termination of his contract (due to a siege) will also receive a VERY unhappy thought, and outnumbered mercs are disloyal and can flee the battlefield. the best mercs will put up with incredibly awful conditions except for being unable to leave.

i really like the 3 ideas for how mercs will behave if you stiff em though. there should be a small chance of lowquality mercs randomly betraying you by stealing stuff and leaving. this can be very dangerous during a siege if the mercs decide they've had enough and unlock the exterior doors.
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Dvergar

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 11:34:23 pm »

What about having the mercenaries come just like immigrants do.  The mercenaries could be the products of nearby warfare or the collapse of a nearby civilization. 

They might evaluate your defensive capability (total military xp of all dwarves, number of traps, number + quality of seige engines, number + quality of wielded weapons, weapon to dwarf ratio) then from there decide whether to raid your fort, or offer their services.  Your defensive score in comparison with their defensive score would play a role in detirmining price and your relationship.

If you have signifigantly higher score than them, they will behave much better, accept punishment, and accept any kind of wealth

If you have slightly higher score, they will be more daring, only mildly upset at minor punishments, be very upset at larger punishments, and will mandate wealth in certain form (bullion/shells/whatever)

If they have slightly higher score, you will basically be paying them protection money, they may cause trouble without being upset, and will demand exorbrant taxes

If they have a signifigantly higher score, they will attempt to loot plunder and rape your fortress, good luck, hopefully they misjudged your defensive abiltiy (ie. complex traps)

At any time you could switch the mercenary troop status (hostile/friendly) with a toggle
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Andeerz

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 12:44:39 am »

It might be helpful to read up on the history of the matter.  :D  I like the ideas raised in this discussion so far.  Dvergar's post reminds me a lot about the problems the French and Italians had with their mercenaries back in the days of yore...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary#History

Czech out this article!  It sums things up pretty well.
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zwei

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 07:36:35 am »

It would also be interesting if caravan guards could ask for job in your fortress (alternativelly, dwarves could try to recruit them.).

Dvergar

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 09:59:12 pm »

What about loaning out your own personal military dwarves?  You would recieve information related to the risks of service then allow your military dwarves to come face-to-face with the RNG of death!

Each contract would have its own specific risk value, then you place that against the dwarf's experience and the dwarf's attributes.  A large random value detirmines the outcome, which could vary between comming out unharmed, to war injuries, to dead corpse, to MIA.  Then another calculation would detirmine loot gained, your dwarves would bring home historical artifacts, trophies of historical figures, enemy armor, enemy weapons, trade goods, or raw metal bars, or maybe he comes home with absolutely nothing.  Injuries and confirmed death may require the contractor's to pay his ransom.

By loaning out your military dwarves they could take part in history under your command.  Your dwarves' would be envoys and representitives of your country, bringing you fame, fortune, or even enemies.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2010, 01:39:22 am »

I am sure mercenaries will have their place sooner or later.  However, a dwarf outpost would have to be nuts to hire people like this.  I mean, just image: you have this huge fortress full of golden statues, gems, masterwork weapons and armor, and you bring in a band of armed warriors to protect you for a few dwarfbucks each week?  Bad bad idea...

Not only were most historical employers of mercenaries incredibly wealthy, some had no armyexcept for a levy of cheap footsoldiers to provide bulk, all ather troops being mercs hired for a specific skill. (Swedish halberdiers, Geonese  crossbowmen, Welsh longbomaen and English Billmen, for example.)
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praguepride

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 11:49:47 am »

How about this for a simple merc system?

A group of mercenaries show up at your trade depot. They'll demand a certain initial wage of trade goods and a continuing wage. So something like 1,000 dwarf bucks to start and 500 dwarf bucks a year.

If you agree, you'll transfer the desired amount of goods over to them (you won't get any change for over spending, and if you don't get the goods fast enough, they'll leave, just like caravans.)

If you pay them, they'll stay on the map and be counted as allies, otherwise they leave (they're not bandits, they won't seige your fort for not paying them).

Now in some ways they operate like normal dwarves. They need to eat, drink, and sleep. They'll sleep in the barracks, eat and drink whatever they can (perhaps going off to hunt if there's not food).

They won't have a morale per se, and they'll never tantrum. Instead, the game will announce that due to poor treatment, the mercenaries are abandoning you. They'll switch over to neutral (and thus ignore and be ignored by other enemies on the map) and leave the map.

You won't be able to control them directly. They'll always be counted as soldiers and thus will never do any work. They will appear on your military screen so you can order them around but you won't be able to select weapons or gear. They will always use their own weapons & gear. If for some reason they ever lose their items (like you strip them down while they were sleeping) they'll "claim" new weapons and armor of the appropriate type. If none exists, well they walk arouond with what they can find...

So you can order them on duty and off. When off duty they'll usually just sit around and do nothing, but they MIGHT (very low chance) spar in the barracks. Although historically mercenaries were used to train up armies, in dwarf fort having a bunch of expert swordsmen without being able to remove their equipment hack away at a bunch of n00bs is a recipe for disaster. While sparing remains as dangerous, mercenaries probably woulnd't want to risk themselves.

When on duty, you can move them around like any other squad.

Each year at the same time they'll drop what they're doing and head to the trade depot. You'll have to trade with them to pay their wages or else they'll leave.


The main issue I see is what will the mercenaries do with their stuff? If you have mercenaries for 10 years and pay them in tables & floodgates, how the hell will they haul all that stuff out when they're done? If you have them store it in a chest or something, what's to stop a player from locking their doors and not letting the mercenaries leave with allt he jewels and coins you traded to them.

My thoughts would be that they'll have weight limits like caravans (and thus would need to be paid in small, highly valuable objects like gems & coins). They will transport it off the map and then return immediately afterwards. This would also be a good way to keep their armor & weapons stocked. Instead of claiming new items they might just "respawn" with their original gear. To prevent players from using them as "free equipment generators" first it would be low quality steel equipment, and second if when they leave they have less "wealth" then when they arrived, they don't come back.
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

Hyndis

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 02:47:33 pm »

What about loaning out your own personal military dwarves?  You would recieve information related to the risks of service then allow your military dwarves to come face-to-face with the RNG of death!

Each contract would have its own specific risk value, then you place that against the dwarf's experience and the dwarf's attributes.  A large random value detirmines the outcome, which could vary between comming out unharmed, to war injuries, to dead corpse, to MIA.  Then another calculation would detirmine loot gained, your dwarves would bring home historical artifacts, trophies of historical figures, enemy armor, enemy weapons, trade goods, or raw metal bars, or maybe he comes home with absolutely nothing.  Injuries and confirmed death may require the contractor's to pay his ransom.

By loaning out your military dwarves they could take part in history under your command.  Your dwarves' would be envoys and representitives of your country, bringing you fame, fortune, or even enemies.

I think there will be something like this planned.

With the army arc you can send out an army to the world map. Once the dwarves leave the map they're on their own, but will hopefully complete the mission you give them. It could be anything from just raze and destroy, or to raid to certain items.

I'd love to be able to send off my army to go slaughter elves and then bring back captured exotic animals to breed, which would then allow me to later on send tame giant tigers to go slaughter even more elves.
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Dvergar

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 03:47:22 pm »

I meant something similar, yet entirely different.  I am aware of the foreign expedition arc, and I mean loaning out your dwarves to a passing by army to be included in said army for a fixed amount of collateral wealth.  Upon coming home the dwarves you might recieve additional spoils of war, or collect on agreed upon insurance money in the event the dwarf is injured/killed.  Dwarves might also desert, misbehave, or turn sides, gifting you with a potentialy explosive international incident.
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Hyndis

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Re: Mercenaries or let slip the dogs of war
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 04:03:01 pm »

Money is worthless though.

The only sort of items that have any worth at all to a player are probably only gems or metal bars.

But that does make sense. It is very dwarven to accept payment in the form of precious gems or metals. How would the spoils be carried to your fortress though? Would the returning dwarves carry them in their inventory? When/where would they drop it?
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