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[Rolan7]

And what if you don't flip town?
Then who will be your second choice.

I think there's a very good chance that Org will flip town.  He's been so unhelpful it's only technically a loss, though.

To answer your question though, quinnr, I think my second choice is still Halmie.  Early on Org was being very light on lurkers: voting them, yes, but saying it's not a scum tell and that we shouldn't actually lynch them.  I think he was using his authority as an experienced player to make the game lurker-friendly, and no one has been lurking more than Halmie.  *Actively* lurking, remember.

Of course, now that I've pointed him out, Halmie will be back and posting soon.

[quinnr]

How the heck is using meta scum? 

[Pandarsenic]

1. HFS
First game.  Voting Org.  Mainly for meta, possibly retaliation.

2. quinnr
Voting Org for same reasons as me.  Catches Org calling town dumb, haha.  Must not buddy with this guy.  Also points out the strange purposeless unvote.

3. spitfire684
Quite lurky.  Voting Org mainly for Caps-lock.  I can sympathize, but should find a better reason.  Hasn't added anything really.

4. siquo
Seems active.  Intimidating avatar, heh.  Scumhunted (me) (a plus).  Voting Org for being generally suspicious.  Which is fine because he's pointed out several instances of suspiciousness.

5. SirBayer
Obsessed with meta.  Voting Org primarily for meta reasons.

6. Org
Insane in the membrane.  But is he scum?

7. Halmie
Hasn't posted in 35 hours, but was online 12 hours ago.  Actively lurking.  Hasn't contributed much, and was kinda buddying with Org (as Org pointed out).  I think his vote's on spitfire.

8. JaaSwb
Hasn't done much at all.  Basically just asked SirBayer about Org's meta, and voted Org for self-voting.  Suspicious.

9. Rolan7
I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD
Well ok I'm Rolan7 the Sage and I'm very old.  I'm also town.  Third Mafia game, I kinda screwed up Aztec mafia (Webadict was stupidly lucky though).  I love to break games, mostly video games, but I don't hurt games with RP and flavor like this one.

And what if you don't flip town?
Then who will be your second choice.

I think there's a very good chance that Org will flip town.  He's been so unhelpful it's only technically a loss, though.

To answer your question though, quinnr, I think my second choice is still Halmie.  Early on Org was being very light on lurkers: voting them, yes, but saying it's not a scum tell and that we shouldn't actually lynch them.  I think he was using his authority as an experienced player to make the game lurker-friendly, and no one has been lurking more than Halmie.  *Actively* lurking, remember.

Of course, now that I've pointed him out, Halmie will be back and posting soon.

If you don't think somebody is probably scum by now, something is wrong. Commit!

If you're asking "But is he?" about someone, you may wish to reconsider your voting, especially since you have behavior of others you consider to be suspicious listed there.

[Rolan7]

If you don't think somebody is probably scum by now, something is wrong. Commit!

If you're asking "But is he?" about someone, you may wish to reconsider your voting, especially since you have behavior of others you consider to be suspicious listed there.

I see your point, but this is day one.  Scum doesn't usually get lynched day one.  Org was acting suspicious, then he defended himself abysmally, but I don't have the meta to know whether he's scum or a bad player or just off his game.

I didn't realize the difference until I got three townies in BM8 lynched for making mistakes and/or being offensive.

I stand by my vote, because he's the most suspicious suspect.  It's close though.  Only scum are certain of anything.

[Org]

How the heck is using meta scum? 

It is when you are doing it wrong.

UNVOTEEEEE
Rolan is scum.
He thinks very much I am town and is willing to kill me.

[Org]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To all: I know, I know, the "experienced players" are saying that's a bad thing. But they have not been paying attention. BM7 had several no-lynches, including Day 1, and was (let me emphasize) the first BM where town won.
Even the IC's were astounded. Which led me to two conclusions: 1. Experienced player means Jack Shit. 2. Any "experienced player" who has been paying attention to BM7 knows that a Day1 No-lynch can be a good thing for town. Being overly against it, is, as of now in my book very suspicious. Suspicious enough to warrant a lynch, even.

I didn't know that about BM7, BM8 was my first.  It's encouraging to hear.  While I have the utmost respect for our more experienced players, I'm becoming more and more convinced that their advice is... not always helpful.

Mostly, it's that you can't apply any piece of advice as a blanket.  They got lucky.  They had a cop and Siquo tunneled on scum D1.  So if you've got a cop and you know it, but the scumteam doesn't--AND the scumteam doesn't have a godfather--then yeah, no-lynching's the right answer, because it pretty much wins you the game.

Experienced player means that you know something about the many ways a scumteam can screw you over, and you can win even without your power roles holding your hand and getting lucky.  Experienced player means knowing something about the many ways power-heavy town can screw you over, and you can win even if you're in 3P lylo against two confirmed townies.

The only town win BM players have actually earned was in BM8.

If that still means jack shit to you... then well, that's too bad.  Please note that the town IC doesn't know who the scumteam is, and the scum IC doesn't know anything about the existence of town's power roles.  They're just like you, except for the part where they can't ask questions or feel out the situation on their own.  You can't expect them to always have the perfect answers in such moments.

I'm sorry, I'm just frustrated with Org.  I gave him a lot of respect in BM8 just because he was an official, and now that I see him playing, I feel betrayed.  I meant it when I said I have the utmost respect for the experienced players, and pretend I emphasized "always" when I said the advice was "not always helpful".

Thank you so much for hosting this incredibly rich game, Vector, and thank you Dakarian for running the Beginner Mafia system in addition to the activity board.  I can't imagine how much effort that takes.  Your advice is appreciated, including your advice to take your advice with a grain of salt (:

Interesting...

Now, again, I did one thing before my lynch in 5 hours 40 min.
I posted my suspicions. This will help town, BUT ONLY IF THEY READ WHAT I HAVE POSTED.

[quinnr]

I have read what you posted, and I might use it..depends if you actually turn out to be town.

[Org]

Well, why would I post it and waste time if I were scum. I will still die in 5 hrs 37 min

[JaaSwb]

After that JaaSwb, for not contributing and bandwagoning against you.  Bandwagoning because he didn't provide a good reason at all, even choose an existing reason.

I voted Org because he claimed scum. For me, that is more than enough for a lynch, even though I suspect he'll flip town (in fact, the WoT I mentioned was partially trying to finally get someone to say how Org was being scummy, instead of just flinging Orgtells everywhere).

I admit I havn't been very useful so far, mainly due to not having any decent suspicions, plus general annoyance at everything that's happened so far.

As for my suspicions:

HFS: Town? Mildly suspicious language in RVS ("if it's town im in favour of it"). Jumped on the Org bandwagon for unspecified meta.
quinnr: Unknown. Second to vote Org, no real reason. Initially lurky.
spitfire684: Mildly suspicious. Third to vote Org, no real reason. Lurky. Hasn't done much.
Siquo: Town? Mildly lurky. Jumped on Org with basically no reasoning.
SirBayer: Suspicious. Tendency to duck questions. Randomvoted Org, then led the bandwagon on him. Did not back up meta-arguments when asked.
Halmie: Suspicious. Extremely lurky. Has done practically nothing.
Rolan7: Suspicious. Called Org scum based on a strong reaction to votes. Initially lurky. Seemed very certain of himself, but then unvoted, then suddenly suspicious again. Suspicious language, "must not buddy".
Org: Quite possibly town, but I still want to see him suffer on the end of that rope tonight. Claimed scum.

"Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post."

RAEG!

[Rolan7]

How the heck is using meta scum? 

It is when you are doing it wrong.

UNVOTEEEEE
Rolan is scum.
He thinks very much I am town and is willing to kill me.

Gah!  You really are just dumb, aren't you?  If I "thought" you were town then I must be town!  If I were scum I would know one way or the other.
Besides which, I don't "think very much you are town".  You're highly suspicious for reasons which I completely covered.  You were also completely useless for scumhunting!  Except for some vote-prodding at the beginning to get people active, every one of your votes has been an OMGUS!

Your redeeming moment was when you asked people for their second choices.  Then you go insane again and call me scum because I started to fall for your fucking WIFOM, well excuse me for believing your BS!  Either way you flip, we're better off without you.

Well, why would I post it and waste time if I were scum. I will still die in 5 hrs 37 min

You're just insulting everyone's intelligence now, especially your own.

[Org]

JaaSwB.
I have regret to inform you that you dont care a townie is lynched. No matter my playstyle, I still tried to do a bit of scumhunting at the end. HAVE YOU GUYS? Not really. Maybe a little here and there, but all it is now is ONE MASSIVE BANDWAGON.

The only reason I claimed scum was hopefully to get a Day Shortening.

IF YOU THINK I AM TOWN UNVOTE
YOU COVER NOTHIN. YOU ARE NOT HUNTING. I TRIED AT THE END. OMGUS DONT MATTER! I HAD REASONS, I CRUSHED YOURS AND THAT BANDWAGON'S REASONING BUT NO ONE WILL LISTEN BECAUSE I WAS "MAD".

Well, scum, it was a horrible game in which teh newbs were newbs

[Org]

...and where Org was....Org.

[Siquo]

...


Org is hunting, and most others are not. Including me.

Unvote, for all the good it will do. Org, however suspicious, has just lowered a lot on my Suspicion list. He rates a 10.1 on a scale of 1-5 on my annoying-list however, with the use of caps. That's no reason to vote for someone though. I have noticed quite a few people voting without any reasoning behind it. Heck, I usually do that, and just go by my gut feelings. Which have been correct 100% of the time, so far. (Two out of two )

My gut feeling still sais Rolan, but I've nothing concrete on him. At all. YET. So there's my final vote, I'm off to sleep. My gut is telling me it's hungry that Org probably is town.

[Org]

...


Org is hunting, and most others are not. Including me.

Unvote, for all the good it will do. Org, however suspicious, has just lowered a lot on my Suspicion list. He rates a 10.1 on a scale of 1-5 on my annoying-list however, with the use of caps. That's no reason to vote for someone though. I have noticed quite a few people voting without any reasoning behind it. Heck, I usually do that, and just go by my gut feelings. Which have been correct 100% of the time, so far. (Two out of two )

My gut feeling still sais Rolan, but I've nothing concrete on him. At all. YET. So there's my final vote, I'm off to sleep. My gut is telling me it's hungry that Org probably is town.

Way to buddy.

BUt its not a bandwagon if we have good reasons!

[JaaSwb]

I'm doubting myself now. I'm positively fuming at Org's claim, but I still think he's town. The only way to be sure is to lynch him, but with more suspicious characters around I'm not sure that's the right thing to do. 

Meh, Org is right about not wanting to lynch town. Unvote (Org).

I take back my request for day shortening.
Halmie probably needs a prod.

Org:
-Why on earth did you claim scum?
-Why did you say Bayer is your partner?
-Why did you say Rolan is town in that post?
-If you don't want to be lynched (you still seem to be defending yourself), why are you still voting for yourself?

Siquo:
Are you voting Rolan only based on gut feeling? Any other reasons?

HFS, Spitfire and quinnr:
-Could you state your reasons for voting Org? Any particular behaviour that strikes you as scummy?
-What are your thoughts on the other players?

SirBayer:
I ask yet again, is Org generally inclined to post more as scum than as town, or is this new?

Rolan:
-You previously said you were 100% sure that Org is scum, based on overreaction. Are you still convinced of this?

I hope I'll see enough of a response to make a more informed choice before the day ends or I pass out. Still, that headache ought to keep me awake for a while.