Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 44

Author Topic: Ex Cathedra [BMIX]: Sunrise  (Read 98364 times)

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2010, 06:34:03 pm »

Votecount

Org [2] - SirBayer, spitfire684
SirBayer [1] - JaaSwb
HFS [2] - Halmie, Rolan7
quinnr [1] - Siquo
JaaSwb [1] - HFS
spitfire684 [1] - Halmie

Not voting: Org

Halmie's vote is on spitfire, not HFS.

Org is acting strange, I can't tell what's up with him.  My only meta knowledge of him is from him IC'ing me in BM8, and he was odd there too.  So, I'm suspicious but not enough to bandwagon so early.

Still, more than I have on HFS.  Unvote HFS

Now that everyone has finally posted *something*, which was the purpose of my votes, we come to the hard part.  On this first day we have very little to go on.  It'll have to do.

*reads the "print" page, admires flavor*
...
Screw it, Org is acting suspicious as hell.  Asking me my role?  Org is not a beginner, and I essentially am, so he might have thought that would work... and claiming is *definitely* bad for town this early, even flavor roles, you shouldn't have done so Quinnr FYI.

His position on lurkers is confusing, and town should not be confusing people:
Everyone, stop lurking. Really. Scummy.
But, more than likely, scum are active.
I think I figured out position: he supports voting lurkers to get them active, but doesn't consider lurking a scum tell.  He may have a point, but it's the sort of point I would make to defend a lurking scumbuddy.

In summary: I'm not at all convinced Org is scum, but at this point, I don't have to be.  He's suspicious
Vote Org
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2010, 06:43:05 pm »

Maybe I should clarify why claiming a role is a bad idea this early.  I don't much doubt that Quinnr is the Prince of Denmark.  He's a bit less suspicious because he claimed (though for all I know the Prince off Denmark could be scum in this setting).  However, if he's claiming to be a vanilla townie, he's just made it a little more likely that scum will nightkill a power role instead.

So, your claim helped you personally, in the short term, but is bad for town.  If we all claimed, scum would kill off our power roles fast.
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Pandarsenic

  • Bay Watcher
  • FABULOUS Gunslinger
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2010, 06:50:43 pm »

He made no claim of Vanilla-ness, though. Or townieness that I can recall. *Shrugs* A purely flavor-claim is meaningless, I'm sure, as per Vektor's design.
Logged
KARATE CHOP TO THE SOUL
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2010, 07:34:38 pm »

Maybe I should clarify why claiming a role is a bad idea this early.  I don't much doubt that Quinnr is the Prince of Denmark.  He's a bit less suspicious because he claimed (though for all I know the Prince off Denmark could be scum in this setting).  However, if he's claiming to be a vanilla townie, he's just made it a little more likely that scum will nightkill a power role instead.

So, your claim helped you personally, in the short term, but is bad for town.  If we all claimed, scum would kill off our power roles fast.
He is obviously claiming Hamlet.
Logged

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #94 on: February 16, 2010, 07:35:51 pm »

i am not scum, but Rolan probably is.

Oh, I wont jump on the bandwagon....fuck that, jump!
Logged

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2010, 07:36:27 pm »

Rolan
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA][BONECARN]
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #96 on: February 16, 2010, 07:47:46 pm »

He made no claim of Vanilla-ness, though. Or townieness that I can recall. *Shrugs* A purely flavor-claim is meaningless, I'm sure, as per Vektor's design.

I read it as him claiming vanilla-ness, but I see you're right.  Good job on Vector's part.  All the flavor has been excellent.

Oh hey, 3 replies since I started typing... wait what?

i am not scum, but Rolan probably is.

Oh, I wont jump on the bandwagon....fuck that, jump!
Rolan

Dude!  I totally provided my own reason, as much or more reason than anyone else did.  Not that I *have* to provide a new reason if I agree with previous arguments, but I did.
This OMGUS... Org, man, I hope you feel better soon.  I expected more from you.
Logged
She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2010, 08:14:30 pm »

He made no claim of Vanilla-ness, though. Or townieness that I can recall. *Shrugs* A purely flavor-claim is meaningless, I'm sure, as per Vektor's design.

I read it as him claiming vanilla-ness, but I see you're right.  Good job on Vector's part.  All the flavor has been excellent.

Oh hey, 3 replies since I started typing... wait what?

i am not scum, but Rolan probably is.

Oh, I wont jump on the bandwagon....fuck that, jump!
Rolan

Dude!  I totally provided my own reason, as much or more reason than anyone else did.  Not that I *have* to provide a new reason if I agree with previous arguments, but I did.
This OMGUS... Org, man, I hope you feel better soon.  I expected more from you.
I always Omgus.
I see no problem in it. I may act strangely, but don't I always act that way.

Anyway, scum, I had hoped we wouldn't see so much obv scum.
You and maybe Siquo for his passiveness.
Find me scummy?
Vote me then!

How am I confusing?
TOWN IS CONFUSING. Do you play with Toony as town? He makes me want to punch babies sometimes.
Logged

quinnr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2010, 08:20:58 pm »

Org, you're still doing the random voting.

I do find you scummy, and I will vote you. If you don't want to come out, you should come up with some reason for your votes, not just a OMGUS! vote.

I place any additional votes I have on Org. The prince of Denmark ought to have something special, shouldn't he?
Logged
To exist or not exist, that is the query. For whether it is more optimal of the CPU to endure the viruses and spam of outragous fortune, or to something something something.

quinnr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #99 on: February 16, 2010, 08:22:44 pm »

Screw it, Org is acting suspicious as hell.  Asking me my role?  Org is not a beginner, and I essentially am, so he might have thought that would work... and claiming is *definitely* bad for town this early, even flavor roles, you shouldn't have done so Quinnr FYI.

Hmmm, what's wrong with revealing flavor roles?  I hardly ever play with flavor, and this is awesome.

Awesome flavor...keep writing!
Logged
To exist or not exist, that is the query. For whether it is more optimal of the CPU to endure the viruses and spam of outragous fortune, or to something something something.

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #100 on: February 16, 2010, 08:27:14 pm »

Org, you're still doing the random voting.

I do find you scummy, and I will vote you. If you don't want to come out, you should come up with some reason for your votes, not just a OMGUS! vote.

I place any additional votes I have on Org. The prince of Denmark ought to have something special, shouldn't he?

HOW AM I RVing? TELL ME, BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE I AM OMGUSING BECAUSE ROLAN IS SCUM TO ME.

HE IS SCUMMY, BECAUSE HE IS OBVIOUSLY BANDWAGONING ON AN EASY LYNCH STARTED BY A STUPID TOWNIE OR SCUM WHO THINKS META IS HOW TO FIND OUT IF ORG IS TOWNIE OR SCUM EVEN THOUGH I AM ON A BREAK AND THEREFORE HAVE NO HOMEWORK. SO YOU TELL ME OTHER THAN I AM FUCKING SUSPICIOUS WHY YOU THINK I AM SCUm. I OMGUS ALL THE TIME, BECAUSE I KNOW I HAVE REASONS.

There are no double votes. Hamlet can do nothing special, unless you are mafia, which you might be, although Rolan seems like it to me.
Logged

dakarian

  • Bay Watcher
  • OMGITSACAT
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #101 on: February 16, 2010, 08:37:27 pm »

At this point, the game has long since left RVS.  Now individuals may still be in Step 1 and randomly poking, but at this point you should be looking hard for some real, if small, content to use.

For the most part, everyone should have a 'target': someone they want to focus on, usually with a vote (though it is possible to target someone while voting for another).  Note that unless you are in at least Step 3 you aren't trying to lynch them (though you don't need to let them know that ;)  )  you are trying to READ them.  Note that it's not only ok to target someone you think might be town but want more confirmation, it's also a VERY GOOD idea.


As for scumminess, be wary of a few factors.

1. Letting quiet people by.  I don't mean lurkers (though don't let them go either).  I mean those that are around but don't make too many waves.  If you look at the player list and, after seeing a certain name say "I didn't know they were playing." consider yourself in trouble.

2. Allowing a vote of yours to turn into a lynch unless you believe they are scum.  It's ok to feel someone is scum and be wrong.  It's NOT ok to have your RV or pressure vote end up killing someone unless you are sure.


After a little while of pressuring it's good to step back and see what you have so far as a complete package.  When doing so, you can then counter those two problems:

vs #1: if you've been going after one person for a while, even if you are still after them, once in a while ask "what's everyone else doing?".  Along with that comes a bigger question: How does everyone else look to me?  Don't compare them with your target (i.e. "If SoandSo is scum then They are also...").  Take each person on their own merits only. 

In fact, Day 1 is the biggest time to do that.  Do NOT let this day end without you having some first impression on every person.  It may be as sure as "I believe they are town/scum/stupid" or as soft as "they seem rather aggressive" and "they don't talk enough" but have something.  If you look at someone and say "I don't really know" then go and learn about them.  Question them, push them until you get some reading.

vs #2:  At regular times, be sure to ask yourself "Why am I after them again?"  It's not second guessing I'm saying, but reaffirming what you have against them.  You'll find that as the battle goes on that they gave good answers to some of your arguments, removing them, but added new issues on your plate.  You may even find that what you originally was after them for is completely different from what you are after now.  Just so long as the reasons are sound then that's fine.

Sometimes, though, you find that each of your arguments have been answered and that all you have left is your original 'feelings' about your target.  At that point, you don't have a good reason to lynch them.  Even if you feel they are scum, you must pull back at this point.  Hunt out of feelings, attack of out theories, but LYNCH for true reasons.  Don't let the lynch happen until you are sure, but don't stop the attack until you run out of things to accuse them of.

Note if you still think they are scum but just don't have any attacks to use, you put them 'in the back burner'.  Let them go back to the wild and watch their future posts for more data.  Meanwhile, start going after others.  Sometimes, you just need to let scum simmer a little more before they are ready for eating.  Just don't forget them completely.


Fakeedit:

About Org and this day:

First off note that I was never told who the mafia are.

Second, each person voting for org needs to check something quickly: Yes, Org is acting odd.  However, odd is just odd.  For odd to be scummy, you need to be able to see it as NOT odd if they are scum doing it. 

Aka: Can you actually see scum doing what Org is doing?  If so, then keep pushing him for more.  If you can't really see scum doing that any better than town then you are facing a Null Tell.  Unless you have other arguments to use that ARE based on scummy actions, it might be time to pull back and attack someone else.


Sidenote: if you've been pushing someone and you don't have anything new scumminess out of them except that one event that started the push, then requestion yourself.  Townies can do occasional scummy acts. The key is this:  If you removed the single scummy act and looked at the rest of him, and the rest seem either townish or gives you no readings, then you don't have enough.

Don't fear if you let go of ONE scumtell.  Scum will always drop another and another.
Logged
Quote from: Dakarian
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #102 on: February 16, 2010, 08:43:40 pm »

Here is the tale of Org the Leper,
a misfortunate tale of a townie of town in a duper,
oh they say, the scum had fun that day
when the town let them go their way

You see, they had tricked the rest
into seeing something not at best
something that the town was too blind to see
it was the start of the end finally

Here is the tale of Org the Leper,
a misfortunate tale of a townie of town in a duper,

it was only the first day,
when the town mslynched, thinking they were putting scum at bay
oh, he flipped vanilla, not the flavor they wanted to see
oh, the scum laughed when they had gotten away free

at night, another was killed,
and the next day, they wished to have me back, instead
of Org, just a rotten corpse, lying dead
and now the town is in over its head

Here is the tale of Org the Leper,
a misfortunate tale of a townie of town in a duper,
Logged

Org

  • Bay Watcher
  • Daring Hero
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #103 on: February 16, 2010, 08:46:55 pm »

I guess it should be of instead of in a
Logged

HFS

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sealed Entity
    • View Profile
Re: Beginner's Mafia IX, Day 1: Two knights walk into a bar...
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2010, 08:48:57 pm »

Yo, I'm back.

Org, even *I* partially know your meta.

I've been watching the mafia forum long before I joined this game...my first game.

Voting without reason? Need I say more.

Unvote (JaaSwb)

Org
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 44