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Author Topic: the big list of what do you think cheating is  (Read 10399 times)

Uthric

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the big list of what do you think cheating is
« on: February 12, 2010, 08:57:08 am »

i want to see a big list of what do you think is cheating and what you dont think is cheating but someone else might.

(not cheating) adding [speed:0] making my dwarfs supper fast to dump that 60000 stone in to  that bottomless pit on the other side of the map, i dont have all year you know....

(cheating) reaction that make free things out of nothing
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Eviltyphoon

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 09:02:39 am »

Imo, anythin you change in the raws to make your dwarves better (harder, better, faster, stronger,...(see what I did there, :p)) is cheating. Even if it is for dumping loads of stones
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Demonic Spoon

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 09:20:50 am »

(cheating)

Atomsmashing
Booze cooking
Completely wall in fortress
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100killer9

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 09:25:54 am »

(cheating)

Atomsmashing
Booze cooking
Completely wall in fortress
I don't consider atomsmashing an exploit, rather it's annoying. I get masterful steel armor from orcs under the drawbridge, I can't loot it.
Boozecooking is fine if it's not intended, and walling in the fortress is the only practical solution against Dig Deeper orcs at first.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 09:29:07 am »

Changing Stone's reaction to change it all to wood.
Making dwarves the speed of light and bigger than elephants.
[NO_SLEEP]
[NO_EAT]
[NO_EXERT]

100killer9

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 09:31:51 am »

Modding to reduce the challenge of the game is cheating, whether it's giving a reaction for adamantine or shrinking goblins.
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Just out of curiosity, what DOES Dwarf Fortress smell like?
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Ladders are absolutely essential for one reason and one reason only:

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The Architect

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 09:41:00 am »

Modding to reduce the challenge of the game is cheating, whether it's giving a reaction for adamantine or shrinking goblins.

Agreed. However, I think that you can mod things to overcome problems like lag via stone dumping/smashing once you've overcome the challenges of sustainability and defense (such as they are; I've never found them challenging but then I haven't flooded a fort yet either).
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Starver

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 09:56:39 am »

(Not cheating [not that I do all of these])
  • Unlimited dumping onto 1x1 tile [you still need to cart it around, even if you are mass-dumping useful stuff and intend to mass-unforbid later]
  • Using novice miners to avoid too much useless stone build-up [use them enough, and they get experienced anyway, and keeping them away from the precious stuff is often difficult enough]
  • Forbidding non-optimal materials prior to being taken to a workshop during a mood-gathering [as Spirit Of The Fortress, surely you should always inspire them to work with the best goods]
  • Ammo preservation by exploiting Z-1 falling [perhaps there should be a "training to fire" mode explicitly available].
  • Creative path-blocking/unblocking to drag hostiles/invaders around the fortress in perpetuity during either infiltrate or evade phases [it often takes a lot more effort than the alternatives]
  • Trap-overkill to intercept wildlife, dangerous wildlife and hostiles without military response [though traps are a little overpowerful]
  • Modding in War(/Hunting?) Elephants/other non-canine captured-and-trained wildlife [if you encounter enough of them, and especially breed them, your trainer will eventually think to try training them - actually, this is encompassed by the next item]
  • Anything that is done to overcome a perceived shortcoming of the current DF game (that may or may not about to be changed) or to revert DF to 'how it used to be done'...  [but in full knowledge that you're not working with the vanilla situation]

(Cheating)
  • Forbidding successive materials taken to workshop during mood-gathering, in order to unforbid and pump up the artefact [though it often takes work]
  • Some of the 3rd-party management apps, where they aren't just shortcuts for 'regular' stuff, but are hidden info revealers/changers etc.  [though could be justified if just used to set up a desired scenario, then left well alone - also see the 'perceived shortcomings' and 'retro' item listed above]

(Could be cheating, debatable)
  • Save Scumming - Could be considered harmless 'exploration' of possibilities, but could be used to optimise encounters/moods/immigration waves/etc.
Actually, I'm disappointed I didn't have more definite 'Cheating' items come to mind.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 09:59:42 am by Starver »
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Arrkhal

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 10:06:52 am »

Cheats that I don't do:
*Walling in
*Boozecooking
*Selling prepared food

Cheats that I do do:
*Matter creation device (only used for megaconstructions)
*Buffing dwarves (megaconstructions only)
*Save scumming (megaconstructions)
*Atomsmashing (only in the absence of magma, though)
*Quantum garbage dump (stone only)
*Roofed over, miasma-less refuse piles
*Use of cage traps
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TauQuebb

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2010, 10:27:54 am »

Hmm, to me using underground crops is a bit of a cheat, never use them myself, always above ground and planting is forbidden in august and december, walling in is fine, but if i have a military, i will at least try to take on the orks outside, usually with bolts from the ramparts, orks are difficult...
I tend to also avoid huge indoor spaces without supports.
I dont cook the booze either.
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darthbob88

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 10:31:05 am »

IMHO, anything which changes the raws in one way or another is cheating, whether that be a stone => wood reaction, making steel free, or making dwarfs move super fast. However, there are degrees to cheating; stone to wood, especially if it converts three or four stone to one log, is not completely reprehensible, as is modding soil to sand. Using smelter reactions to make adamantine free, or to produce diamonds, emeralds and rubies by the truckload, is somewhat uncivilized. Personally, I primarily use cheats for those things that I need quickly and which aren't too bad, like bags for all the seeds I have everywhere, red stone for color-coded levers, or the material I need to satisfy this last mood/mandate.

Actually, since you asked for a big list, here are all the cheats I use:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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100killer9

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 10:32:54 am »

I have a horrible tendency to savescum when FUN happens. Usually only when someone important dies, but it's still savescumming.
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Just out of curiosity, what DOES Dwarf Fortress smell like?
Death, Booze, and Insanity.
Ladders are absolutely essential for one reason and one reason only:

Welcome, friends to Slaves to Armok III: Snakes and Ladders.

TheBeardyMan

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2010, 10:40:01 am »

Not cheating:

Draft/undraft broker if he's on break or attending a party at trading time
Completely filling the entrance corridor with traps
Trench behind archery targets to preserve bolts that miss
Stone dumping
Walling in the fortress
Modifying the raws to work around a genuine bug

Cheating:

Making billon bars from tetrahedrite
Boozecooking
Ice constructions in contact with magma or in a non-freezing biome
Exploiting the "water contiguous with natural running water settles one z-level lower beyond the u-bend" bug
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kalida99

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2010, 10:48:57 am »

Anything that gives the player an edge over the AI or game itself
IE: Free item reactions, enemy editing, player entity editing, etc

Your a dwarf dammit! The game gives you a challenge and you over come it in the most confusing and resource expending way possible!
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100killer9

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2010, 11:00:56 am »

Ic constructions in contact with magma is NOT cheating. It's awesome. You could just say that it's ultra-pressurized so that it can't melt...?
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Just out of curiosity, what DOES Dwarf Fortress smell like?
Death, Booze, and Insanity.
Ladders are absolutely essential for one reason and one reason only:

Welcome, friends to Slaves to Armok III: Snakes and Ladders.
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