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Author Topic: the big list of what do you think cheating is  (Read 10150 times)

Asmodeous

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 11:04:37 am »

(cheating)

Atomsmashing
Booze cooking
Completely wall in fortress

How exactly is completely walling in your fortress cheating?
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azazel

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2010, 11:08:45 am »

Savescumming to begin with. I don't know, I tend to take things as they come. Might be why my fortresses are such dangerous places.
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TKGP

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2010, 11:20:18 am »

In my opinion, anything that the game allows without mods is fair game. Atom smashing, perpetual motion, quantum dumps, whatever. Modding in stuff like Dig Deeper isn't cheating because you sure don't profit from it; you do it to make the game harder, and thus (for some people) more fun. That said, if you want to mod in superdorfs to complete a megaconstruction, that's cool. It might make it a lot easier, but if you're at the point of doing large projects, you can probably easily sustain a normal fortress anyways.
I guess what I mean is that any way you want to play the game is fine.
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Asmodeous

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 11:26:56 am »

Oh, and I consider breaking down the Depot to get all the stuff from an entity to be cheating. Have the balls to seize it or don't get anything. :P
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Luna

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 11:34:47 am »

I think pretty much anything that decreased the difficulty is cheating. However, I don't have any problems with cheating, as long as you don't use it to get ahead in a competition or something. Making the game super easy's no fun IMO, but whatever floats your boat I guess. :-\
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100killer9

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 11:49:31 am »

Oh, and I consider breaking down the Depot to get all the stuff from an entity to be cheating. Have the balls to seize it or don't get anything. :P
Or watch one llama get slaughtered and prevent you from trading, and open the door when they start to go insane so they can leave and get slaughtered by the siege outside.
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Aspgren

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 12:02:40 pm »

You're cheating if you:

Do NOT create a multitude of levers that connect to unneccessery and complicated constructions that will smash/flood/impale/shut down parts of your fort.

Do NOT put them in a central control room.

LABEL them with notes to keep track of which does what.
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riznar

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2010, 01:21:52 pm »

I don't really consider anything cheating. Some things would take the fun out for me but would be more fun for others. I consider DF a toy, it'd be like cheating at Legos.
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SkyRender

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2010, 01:50:40 pm »

Have to agree with riznar here.  Dwarf Fortress is an interesting game without any cheats in place, granted, but it can be more fun for some of us to change the rules about and make it better suited for a specific course of action instead.  Some like myself prefer to turn off hostiles for the sake of quick mega-constructions, some prefer to up the number of hostiles and turn it into a strategic combat-centric game, others just want a larger variety of lifeforms to mess about with.  Some games I can understand criticizing cheating in, but this really isn't one of those games, since it becomes a totally different experience depending on how you configure the raws and how you choose to play.
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pushy

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2010, 01:59:23 pm »

IMHO, anything which changes the raws in one way or another is cheating, whether that be a stone => wood reaction, making steel free, or making dwarfs move super fast.
While you've given some decent examples, your definition of "cheating" is crap :P Loads of things in the raws can be altered without being considered cheating.


(cheating)

Atomsmashing
Booze cooking
Completely wall in fortress

How exactly is completely walling in your fortress cheating?
Since walls cannot be destroyed by any creature, walling yourself in means you're completely safe from almost all hostiles - ambushes, sieges, skeletal carp, they're powerless against you if you build a wall around your fort. For the most part, the same applies to digging a channel around your fort (though archers can still get you with that method so it's not quite as good). Flying creatures can go over the wall or channel and attack you, but there are so few in the game that you might as well say that you're safe from all hostiles.
That's the reason why walling yourself in can be considered cheating; if you're not prepared to be massacred by goblins/orcs/whatever then walls prevent them from getting into your fort in the first place.
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Simmura McCrea

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2010, 02:21:03 pm »

Flying creatures can go over the wall or channel
IIRC, flying creatures can't go over walls/channels if there isn't a ground path.
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M.R. Siegal

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2010, 02:22:33 pm »

I don't consider atomsmashing a cheat.  The game has so much clutter, and clutter has such an affect on game performance that you need a mechanism to get rid of objects.  And on a map without a chasm or a magma pipe, atomsmashing is pretty much the only way.

And I don't consider savescumming cheating.  If you are just playing to play it'd be one thing, but for those of us that work on megaprojects and can irrevocably mess things up, sometimes you just need to back up.

Boozecooking is pretty cheaty though.  I don't do that.

I'm not sure it's cheating, but I've had to turn off invasions in order to work on my current megaproject.  I simply cannot get done the things I need to do with invasions on.  I feel real dirty about it though.
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ohgoditburns

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2010, 02:53:47 pm »

Cheating is anything that reduces the fun (not FUN) of the game.
-excessive cage/weapon traps are cheating
-modifying raws to make superdwarves is cheating
-selling meals is cheating
-using a program to remove injuries from your dwarves is cheating

Not cheating are things that reduce irritation.
-using tweak to designate veins for mining is not cheating
-creating a custom reaction to produce shells is sort of cheating. (I get irritated later on since cooking destroys the shell)
-savescumming to redo needless caveins is not cheating. (i.e. ramping out under trees)
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Dorf3000

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2010, 02:56:28 pm »

Pretty much the only 'cheating' I can think of is the tweak tools where you reveal the map/edit certain tiles, editing reactions to get free stuff/get around a lack of certain material, and possibly savescumming for trivial reasons that don't involve dead dwarves or flooding with magma.
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tastypaste

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Re: the big list of what do you think cheating is
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2010, 03:20:19 pm »

Anything you can't do in the game itself is cheating.

I don't consider things like assigning labor through DwarfTherapist cheating because you can do the same thing in the game, DT just makes it faster.
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