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Author Topic: Boot Camp Mafia: End  (Read 34962 times)

Kashyyk

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Rysith: Well Archangel seems to be intent on going for me, but it's kinda understandable. I think we should be careful about Bayer possibly being town, as the Bayer/Jokerman fight would be awesome for the scum if they were both town. Although Bayer claiming that Jokerman got all screechy and stuff when trying to hide things might just be meta cover to get a towny lynch.

Archangel: How was I bandwagonning and buddying? And in response to your question, I am debating between Rysith and Bayer.
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Eduren

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Bayer

This:
Let me repeat this again to those who refuse to listen to me: Kashyyk has NOTHING to do with this. The victim of any mislynch has nothing to do with this. Dropping a vote casually at any point, even a mock vote, while pretending it is meaningless has everything to do with it.
Is completely different from your original accusation:
Seriously, you're dropping a vote now to... to what, kill him? Town needs to kill, but you don't have evidence, you don't have conviction! You're not doing this for pressure, you're not doing this for conversation. You just mislynched, and you're cheerfully aiming straight ahead to hit another mislynch target! You're not even trying to hide it! Rysith, thank you for making this so easy for me.

Get your shit straight. Is he leading mislynches or being careless with his vote? It can't be both.
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I don't know.  Duke wants me to stop playing mafia.
That's the sign of an abusive boyfriend, Toony... you don't have to listen to him.

SirBayer

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Rysith: Well Archangel seems to be intent on going for me, but it's kinda understandable. I think we should be careful about Bayer possibly being town, as the Bayer/Jokerman fight would be awesome for the scum if they were both town. Although Bayer claiming that Jokerman got all screechy and stuff when trying to hide things might just be meta cover to get a towny lynch.

...Uh.

Did you even... read... any of that?

Eduren: *sigh* So I guess that I can't actually use my strategy anymore, since you've called me out on it. Yes, my arguments were complete bullshit! You think I wasn't aware of that? I'm not a retard! I was trying to take something, anything, and reach some sort of conclusion. Make him scumslip, apply pressure. Who gives a damn about my arguments as long as he's nervous?

ICs, isn't the first step of scumhunting attacking someone, even if you don't have a reason to? Have I done something incorrectly here?
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Dude, you don't want to be messing around with imperial assloads.  The conversion rate to horseloads is atrocious.
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RedWarrior0

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Now, eduren, why did you joke around with Bayer when you actually had "scum in your sights" you could focus on?

Still waiting, eduren.
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Eduren

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The point is that you should be pushing somebody you suspect already. If you did suspect him before your pressure, then you should be able to provide real evidence. Now, if you didn't have any suspicions and picked somebody at random to pressure then that's bad.

The point is Bayer, you should have some real suspicions day 2. If you don't have them, you need to do some reading.

Is Rysith scum? If you still suspect him, have you given up trying to convince us?



Now, eduren, why did you joke around with Bayer when you actually had "scum in your sights" you could focus on?

Still waiting, eduren.
Huh?  Because I was content with the looming Joker lynch. I was telling him to "stop being so scummy" if he was town, and "I'm watching you" if he was scum.
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I don't know.  Duke wants me to stop playing mafia.
That's the sign of an abusive boyfriend, Toony... you don't have to listen to him.

Eduren

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Although Bayer claiming that Jokerman got all screechy and stuff when trying to hide things might just be meta cover to get a towny lynch.
You've got that backwards, Joker called Bayer screechy.
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I don't know.  Duke wants me to stop playing mafia.
That's the sign of an abusive boyfriend, Toony... you don't have to listen to him.

Vector

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Rysith: Well Archangel seems to be intent on going for me, but it's kinda understandable. I think we should be careful about Bayer possibly being town, as the Bayer/Jokerman fight would be awesome for the scum if they were both town. Although Bayer claiming that Jokerman got all screechy and stuff when trying to hide things might just be meta cover to get a towny lynch.

...Uh.

Did you even... read... any of that?

Eduren: *sigh* So I guess that I can't actually use my strategy anymore, since you've called me out on it. Yes, my arguments were complete bullshit! You think I wasn't aware of that? I'm not a retard! I was trying to take something, anything, and reach some sort of conclusion. Make him scumslip, apply pressure. Who gives a damn about my arguments as long as he's nervous?

ICs, isn't the first step of scumhunting attacking someone, even if you don't have a reason to? Have I done something incorrectly here?

It's really hard to make someone nervous when you're contradicting yourself.  They can readily just turn around and lynch you, instead.  So yeah, attack people for almost no reason.  Just don't be a moron about it.

Basically, think about it this way.  Your job is to crack someone.  If they actually aren't throwing scumtells, then you generally need to leave them alone and find someone who actually is showing things--because seriously, every scum spews tells.  You just have to know how to find them, and when to listen to the person you're attacking--as well as when you shouldn't.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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dakarian

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What you're referring to, Sir, is Step 1: the RV.  It doesn't just happen at the start of the game: it's any time when everyone seems neutral to you.  At that point, you throw out anything, ANYTHING, even if it's lies, BS, and random.com to get them to talk.  The goal, though is NEVER to lynch but to get a read on them. If you look at what they do and they seem to be acting townish then you have nothing: leave them alone and go after someone else.

Step 2 is when you pressure.  This is when you have something to use.  The reason could be flaky and weak, but it's not BS.  You saw one sentence that sounded slightly passive.  You saw a person make one too many vote switches for your liking.  They are defending themselves (even though they were attacked and, thus, wanted to answer the charges, which is what you're supposed to do :P).  Even if you can see yourself doing it as town, if it feels off to you anyway, or you know it as a scumtell, hit em and hit em HARD.

Whatever you're doing you should know WHAT you are doing at the time.  Make sure you keep up with your reasoning for every attack you do.  That contradiction would be fine if you did it deliberately.

[lolwat?!  2 reasons off the top of my head for doing a contradiction:

1. You found a scumtell and hit on it, they answered it well enough to keep you content, then they did a different scumtell that looks bad.  You then go after that.  A scum that starts off defensive may, when prodded, turn aggressive but towards a safe target.  You attack them for not attacking, then later attack them for attacking poorly.

2. Trap setting.  Scum have a bad habit of trying to lynch too fast.  They see one real scumtell then go b*lls-to-the-wall to get the person lynched.. not attacking, LYNCHING.  Others get worried when around a strong attacker and will avoid going after them completely.

Thus the trap, you let the contradiction stand, then watch the reactions.  If someone attacks you and pushes you hard for it, applying pressure, that's a town tell.  If they are ignoring the contradiction (not that they didn't see it, you can tell they are reading.. but they are letting it by) or going "OMG THAT"S SCUMLYNCHEMNOWwww!" well.. you now have someone to go after.

]


So is there really anything wrong with what you're doing Sir?  Yes, but not what you think.  The contradiction wasn't wrong (it WAS a scumtell but remember, townies DO cast scumtells at times): the reaction to being found contradicting is what's wrong.  You know why you are throwing contradictions.  You know it's for scumhunting purposes, and emotional-based attacks are effective tools. 

You should also know that you'll be suspicious for using them.  If you do something that isn't typical or is a flat out scumtell then know that you not only WILL be attacked but SHOULD be attacked.  If I attack with BS, I expect someone to call me out on it, even if I don't plan on it being a trap.  I then plan on explaining to them why I do what I do while trying to read their attack to see if they are town or scum after me. 

Yes, that does mean that you may be lynched for it anyway.  As town you should be ready for that possibility and be willing to take it if needed.  To partially use Sir's quote "Who gives a damn" as long as I find scum? 


So to sum up, know what you are doing when you are attacking. 

Know when you are emiting scumtells and, instead of hiding them, be ready to explain them and face attacks from others.

Know that even your lynch means nothing if it means you find scum.
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Quote from: Dakarian
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!

SirBayer

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I chased after what I had at the end of each post. I suppose reasons changed.

*sigh* But there's my problem. I've got no leads, I've got nothing. And now my one RV has kind of turned back on me, and I've explained it as you told me to, but it hasn't done anything for me.

Well then. Let's nail back down and look at some new targets, how about that?

Let's take a leaf out of Dak's post right there and turn to Eduren himself.

Why were you so eager to point out the mistakes in what was obviously on some level scumhunting, even if particularly misguided? The fact is I don't have leads, and so I'm working with that - can you accept that?

What I DO know, Rysith

I'm glad someone else thinks that too and it's not just my paranoia, I wouldn't be surprised if the day one buddying followed by this outburst is just the two of them working together to create an 'obviously can't both be scum feel', but it's just a gut feeling and so I've not brought it up so far. That said GlyphGryph your posting style is very similar to his in my opinion.

Lovely buddying there, Shades. Yeah, I see it.
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Dude, you don't want to be messing around with imperial assloads.  The conversion rate to horseloads is atrocious.
Rules are for suckers.

RedWarrior0

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Bayer. Again. As I said yesterday, you are most scummy to me. I really need some sleep, so I'll backit up later.
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dakarian

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Final Vote Count:

SirBayer[4]: GlyphGryph (too much knowledge), Shades (poor reasoning on Rysith's scumminess), Eduren (contradictions), RedWarrior0 (based on Joker/Bayer fight)
Archangel[1]: Org (buddying)
Rysith[1]: SirBayer (voting for attendance not hunting)
Kashyyk[1]: Archangel (lurking, buddying, bandwagoning)

Not Voting: Rysith, Kashyyk

Deadline has been reached. 

SirBayer, Mafia Roleblocker, has been lynched.


Congrats.  One down, one to go.

Rysith, and Kashyyk, you have until 4am EST to contact your mentor or else you will receive a prod.

For the rest of you still alive, and the mentors, you have until Friday, 9pm EST.  It's not the weekend, so I honestly should expect it to be done by this time tomorrow. 
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Quote from: Dakarian
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!

dakarian

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Wakey wakey, it's a new day.

Shades, Townie, has died.

Survivors:
RedWarrior0
Eduren
Org
Archangel
Rysith
GlyphGryph
Kashyyk

Deadline to vote: Saturday, 9pm EST

Deadline to end of Day: Tuesday, 9pm EST

Note that the vote deadline will be waved for the weekend IF I receive a PM requesting it.
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Quote from: Dakarian
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!

Pandarsenic

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Re: Boot Camp Mafia: Day 3 (You just don't get it. THIS IS WAR!)
« Reply #267 on: March 05, 2010, 09:50:51 pm »

OH COME ON GIVE ME A LITTLE TIME <_<;
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Org

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Re: Boot Camp Mafia: Day 3 (You just don't get it. THIS IS WAR!)
« Reply #268 on: March 05, 2010, 09:55:31 pm »

...
That just made one less suspicious uncertainty go away.
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dakarian

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Re: Boot Camp Mafia: Day 3 (You just don't get it. THIS IS WAR!)
« Reply #269 on: March 06, 2010, 08:41:34 am »

@Pandar  You can STILL send your report to your trainees.  Go ahead.

Same for the rest of you.

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Quote from: Dakarian
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!
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