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I'm so sorry

11 (26.2%)

I'm a bad person

19 (45.2%)

Please forgive me

12 (28.6%)

Total Members Voted: 42

[Mephansteras]

Maybe most constructions shouldn't take money. They're built with junk lying around, anyway. Just make it so that the engineer can only make 3 or 4 constructions before a battle. Really GOOD constructions like, say, fortifications that provide a defense boost while letting you fight from behind them or more deadly traps would cost some money, but not enough that you'd feel bad about using them.

Think of them as consumables like bandages. They're good enough that you want some around to save your life in a fight, but not so expensive that using it up (either by being a 1-shot item, having it destroyed, or moving on) is a big deal.

In general, I think all costs should be standardized as much as possible. You can heal X amount for $X, you can deal X damage for $X, you can give someone X AP for $X, you can slow a zombie down by X AP for $X, and so on. That makes balancing all of the items used much easier.

For example, your basic SMG does, say, 5 shots per round at 1 dmg each. Your hunting rifle does 1 shot per round at 5 dmg. Your pistol does 3 shots at 1.6 dmg each. The cheapest explosive does 1.25 damage to all zombies in a 4 square area (centered on the intersection).

Just example numbers there, but I think it makes my point.

[Rolan7]

I'm down with a wipe, though I haven't had time to become attached to my character.

I agree heartily with basically everything Meph said.  Good stuff.

So how do you keep everyone from going for DPS over survivability?  Make it easier for them to take damage, and harder for them to die, by giving the zombies area-effect attacks and the players more health.  Suddenly armor lets you fight longer without healing, instead of *maybe* saving you from an attack if you're lucky.  The group as a whole can take more damage, making engineers and medics vital (for healing rather than just buffs), but players won't be so paranoid about dieing.

Having to restore all these steadily decreasing HP would force choices: do I heal everybody, or do I apply buffs to certain characters in the hopes of keeping the horde down?  This would make "Softhearted" much more important - as players are now, exceptionally fragile, my first priority is always healing anyway.

I know area-effect attacks require a lot more rolling.  But I think it's worth it, and also thematic.

[Mephansteras]

So how do you keep everyone from going for DPS over survivability?  Make it easier for them to take damage, and harder for them to die, by giving the zombies area-effect attacks and the players more health.  Suddenly armor lets you fight longer without healing, instead of *maybe* saving you from an attack if you're lucky.  The group as a whole can take more damage, making engineers and medics vital (for healing rather than just buffs), but players won't be so paranoid about dieing.

That's what surprise zombies out of the walls are good for. They show up without warning and whack someone. If you don't have good survivability and healing, you'll die pretty quick to those guys even if you can ALWAYS take them out the next round. The fast zombies I talked about are also a good way to encourage this. If they can dart out of behind the front row and whack you before you have a chance to fire, things like armor, walls, and traps are suddenly much more useful.

[Cheddarius]

The problem is people only have 3 HP - I want a way for people to buy armor, so that they can increase their DP and be healed and such. With 3 HP, it's just as likely you'll be killed instantly and never have a chance to be healed. Medics have been basically changed to a buff class, while engies are the new healing class...

[Mephansteras]

Does it really need to stay that way? If you're rebalancing everything you can easily give people more hit points.

[Cheddarius]

Hmmm. So armor would give people more HP, then? Interesting.

[Rolan7]

I was thinking more innate HP, also cheaper armor, and then zombies doing more damage to compensate (though distributed among multiple players, so each individual is less likely to die if he's near an engineer and medic).

[Mephansteras]

I also think we should have fewer zombies that can do huge amounts of damage. Nor should zombies tend to gang up on someone unless they're already in melee range with that person and have them surrounded.

We want people to die because they screwed up, or the group made some bad decisions as a whole, or maybe because of some simple bad luck. We don't want people dying because you went "Now these 20 zombies with ranged attacks all fire on so-and-so at once. Oh, look, he's dead! What a shock!". That's not much fun, since there isn't much we can do to stop that.

Note that I'm fine with people dying, just not dying without anything they can do about it.

[Cheddarius]

People do die with things they could have done about it - they didn't purchase armor. People who purchase even slight quantities of armor, leather clothing or whatnot, they end up living...

[wolfchild]

im starting up my own monster defence, still want to play this one, and cheddarius has a reserved spot if he wants it, also help developing it would be welcome

[RAM]

The roles I would like to see.
Sniper: low mobility, high damage, low attacks, high range
Machine gunner: High attacks
 Light M.G.er: low mobility, low defence, high range
 Sub M.G.er: low damage
Pistoleer: high mobility, high defence, low damage
Shotgunner: High damage, low attacks, low range, versatile(incendiary: highest damage; shot: knockback; slug: lower damage, higher criticals)
Melee: High mobility, High defence, low range.

Medic: healing, buffs
Engineer: static defences, debuffs(flood lights reduce accuracy, barbed wire/caltrops reduce movement, Tesla coils from Red Alert hamper longevity)
 The forward firing turrets are a great idea, they are a really nice battle-field-shaping item. The engineer would be a great class for someone who wants to play master-mind funnel the enemy into every more elaborate snares and lures.

Demo would be best distributed amongst engineer and L.M.G., hand out a mortar instead of a light machine gun and you have area effects with fewer attacks, more damage if there is a different target in every affected space, but less if the enemy is spread out and less ability to remove specific targets. Engineers could get mines, and everyone could have grenades if they are willing to spend the cash...

I am kind of attached to my character, so I would rather not start completely from scratch, but I have no objection to a rewrite of the abilities to tone everything down and impose upper limits to possible bonuses...

A zombie ability you could consider is to have maximum damage from a single shot, it would make them sniper resistant and combined with a percentage reduction in damage or reduction in damage of each shot could limit the damage of high rate-of-fire types too. Just have something that everyone needs to beat down for a few rounds to kill, combine it with healer types that you would need to kill first and you have a compound enemy...

Armour is on my list, but first I want the perk to increase funds, and then I need the hat to prevent criticals, which are what will kill me, and then I probably want damage-per-hit reduction which doesn't need to be repaired, and there is that perk with the 20% chance to be missed, and the perk which doubles attacks, and I would love to get whirlwind back, but armour is definitely on the list...

[Archangel]

I am kind of attached to my character, so I would rather not start completely from scratch, but I have no objection to a rewrite of the abilities to tone everything down and impose upper limits to possible bonuses.

[wolfchild]

im starting up my own monster defence, still want to play this one, and cheddarius has a reserved spot if he wants it, also help developing it would be welcome

please at least say no chedd, id like a response

[Cheddarius]

To the game? I don't really feel like playing. You can give my spot to someone else.

[wolfchild]

ok, heeyyyyy i like your char RAM, you can have it il make an exeption in my no players playing this one as wel rule