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I'm so sorry

11 (26.2%)

I'm a bad person

19 (45.2%)

Please forgive me

12 (28.6%)

Total Members Voted: 42

[411570N3]

For demo man I might wait a bit until his deal with mortars/rocket launchers/grenade launchers is cleared up. Anyway, I'll see what I can come up with for pistoleer, engineer and hero as well as some decent perks for pistoleers, shotgunners and machinegunners. Should I assume the perks from this post have been rejected? If so, could I get a little feedback regarding them?

[Cheddarius]

I think people voted. Result is C. GLs have infinite reg ammo and bought limited spec ammo.
Eating ribs. Feedback later.

[RedWarrior0]

Well, time to redo my character.

[Cheddarius]

Sorry, necessary evil.

[RedWarrior0]

I understand.

10 PP Starting + 4 I spent on Ghillie
+3: Slow (Gunner) = 17
+6: Never Surrender (Gunner) = 23
+2: Lone Wolf (Sniper) = 25
+3: Camper (Sniper) = 31
+3: Coward (Sniper) = 34

Now I'm gonna take -25 to get my previous perks:
-5: Joy (Sniper)
-10: Sensei (Sniper)
-6: Apricot (Sniper)
-4: Ghillie (Sniper)

Which leaves me with 6 PP left.

Also, Pistols should be:

Pros: Jack of all trades...
Cons: ... master of none.

[411570N3]

Being the Jack is in itself a negative. Being the Jack in all trades is the positive part. The master of none part just comes as a logical follow-on to being the Jack in everything. You can't be the master in anything if you're the Jack in everything.

[Pandarsenic]

Joskar Viholde
>Gunner
>>Shotgunner
Marksman (?), Lively, Speedy

+50% damage for guns
+50% accuracy (?)
+30% shotgun pellets
+3 AP

-50% damage for non-shotguns
-75% damage in melee

1 PP remaining

What changed about Marksman and how much cash do I have after getting rid of mah bicycle helmet?

[Cheddarius]

Panda, I made the PP cost bigger, I believe.

Pistols changed.

I think Jack implies "at least a Jack". Plus, people don't really know what Jack is, so the master of none is added emphasis.

Allstone:

Spoiler: Perk/flaw critique (click to show/hide)

Medic
Softhearted: +3PP: Cannot take other actions apart from healing if able to heal an ally below 75% health.
I added this,

Brute
Personal Space: -5PP: Able to attack three surrounding orthogonally adjacent squares simultaneously if using a bladed weapon. Able to knock back enemies if using a bludgeoning weapon.
We already have Whirlwind.
Charge: -4PP: Able to use a turn moving in a straight line until stopped. Any units encountered are attacked automatically and roll to not be pushed back. The unit that finally stops the player is attacked again at the end of the charge.
We already have a kinda complicated ability. We don't need another more complicated one.
Rage: +3PP: Will focus on a single enemy until it is dead.
Will add a teensy bit of complication because I have to remember who was being focused on.
DIEDIEDIEDIEDIE: +3PP: Cannot have more than one target in a single turn.
I doubt anyone would buy this, it makes the class almost entirely useless except for boss battles. And do you want to essentially sit out for several rounds to be marginally more useful in a boss battle?

Acrobat
Flips: -4PP: Can move two squares in a straight line, jumping over an enemy.
Sounds all right, but Acrobat already has a lot of perks.
Whoops: -8PP: Has a chance to dodge attacks, which are then directed to another enemy adjacent to the attacker.
Complicated.
Mime: +4PP: Communication with other players and the shopkeeper may not be verbal.
Complicated, kind of pointless, slows down game a very large amount
Riddler: +4PP: Communication must be in riddles.
See above

Pistoleer
Juggler: -8PP: -1AP for equipping pistols. Every pistol that was equipped at some point in a turn may be fired that turn, with AP spent counting simultaneously on every pistol used.
Pretty complicated, don't see the point
Dodge This: -4PP: Increased hit and crit chance on adjacent units.
Added already.
Trick Shots: -7PP: Missed shots are more likely to hit other targets and/or ricochet. Ricocheting shots may also hit targets.
Complicated.
What's Gun Safety?: +10PP: Small chance of trying to look down, scratch yourself with or blow into the barrel of your gun and pulling the trigger each turn, causing a critical shot on yourself.
Complicated.
Always Ready: +6PP: All unequipped pistols each have a small chance to fire in a random direction each turn.
Complicated.

Machinegunner
Gangsta Grip: -5PP: For one turn, you evenly spray bullets accross a small horizontal arc, being unable to miss as long as the bullets intersect with them on the horizontal plane.
Complicated
Suppression: -4PP: You may spend a turn laying down suppressing fire. Enemies that were the line of fire some time during or at the end of their move take damage as if you had fired at them with a +2 accuracy bonus.
Complicated
Lead River: -4PP: Enemies which you hit have increased AP costs for moving towards you for the next turn, depending on the amount of shots which hit.
Complicated
Subtlety: +3PP If you are able, you must shoot at zombies every turn.
Don't see the point. People shoot anyways.
RAAARGH: +4PP: If you fire in a turn, you must spend all your AP for that turn firing.
Don't see the point. Makes game very annoying to play.

Shotgunner
BANG: -4PP: When you hit an enemy, they have a chance of flying backwards depending on how much damage was done. Enemies which are knocked backwards take extra damage and take an AP penalty the next turn in order to get back up.
Complicated
My Boomstick: -4PP: Enemies in melee range take extra damage. Enemies orthogonally adjacent take an AP penalty if you fire, to recover from being deaf.
Complicated
Poor Penetration: +5PP: Enemies, on the turn they die, remain as obstacles for pellets for the entirety of the turn they die.
Kind of complicated
Red Smears: +5PP: There is a small chance for enemies you kill to be unlootable and give half as much money, depending on how much damage you did to them on the turn they died.
Complicated, what would be the rules?

Sniper
Cold & Efficient: -8PP: If you kill an enemy with a single headshot, you may take a second shot on any enemy just behind the enemy you just killed.
Messes up the point of a sniper - one-target high damage. Sure, the Rail Rifle does too, but that's a class weapon and it's very special. Only one in the whole world.
Lone Wolf: +4PP: Will not fire sniper rifles when orthogonally adjacent to an ally.
Added already.
Icy Bastard: +6PP: If an ally comes between you and an enemy, you will fire anyway, rolling to intentionally miss your ally.
Added already
Needlessly Polished Scope: +5PP: Every shot you make has a chance of making that enemy's target you. If the enemy can communicate, he will also have his allies attack you.
Complicated
Camper: +8PP: You must spend a turn to set up before firing, and spend a turn packing up before moving after firing.
Added, but in a different way.

Complicated means one of these things:
-Adds a roll. Six different perks had something like "adds a chance of X". This complicates things, because I have to make another roll, and I could make a mistake too.
-Adds a modifier. Hypothetical example: "if the enemy is under three squares away, damage is doubled". Now I have to check that every turn, instead of just doing damage normally.
-Makes some drastic change in mechanics. For example, firing at an area, making a bullet explode and deal area damage, or making it ricochet (which also goes under "adds a roll"). A few of yours did this. I would have to do a different thing instead of just calculating damage, which would complicate things.
-Some other things. Use your judgement.

A very large quantity of your things are very complicated. Shotguns with area damage, new chances to do this or that, etc. As a computer game, I think your ideas would be very good and creative. But as a human-administrated game, I just can't keep up with that level of differences.

[Mephansteras]

Question: I have an Uzi, which was removed from the list. Do I treat it as an MP5 for upgrade purposes?

[411570N3]

Spoiler: Pistoleer Class Weapon: Discarding Sabot Round Pistol (click to show/hide)

An incredibly customised pistol, chambered to extremely specific rounds. Tailor made and perfectly customised to the user, this pistol can be equipped with a wide range of handles, slides, hammers, magazines and barrels. However, the important customisation stays the same. This pistol is chambered to fire frangible armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot rounds, utterly devastating, extremely accurate, armour piercing rounds. Firing at <about the same AP as a normal pistol> a shot, it fires the saboted round, which, if it hits an enemy within three squares, does <high damage>, with any damage stopped by armour being dealt directly to the target. At three squares, the sabot is discarded and the bullet now does <less damage>, and <a significant fraction> of damage dealt to armour by it is dealt directly to the target. Firing at a <high accuracy> thanks to the high speed and specialised design of the rounds, the rounds are also extremely likely to mangle important organs due to the penetrator being frangible depleted uranium. What this means is that when exposed to high pressure, it will shatter in to a large amount of tiny, flaming shards, meaning a hit enemy has a <high crit chance> chance of suffering critical damage.
Cost: <A number of> PP
Higher damage: PP
Yet higher crit: PP
Increased range for the higher damage: PP

Spoiler: Engineer Class Weapon: Telemagnetic Ion Shield Device (click to show/hide)

A device with a full black shell surrounding it with a single bulky antenna protruding from the very top. A control panel can be seen on one side. Opening the shell reveals a massive tangle of electronic parts, circuitry, coils and batteries. With it, you may choose any number of sides of squares to shield each turn, as long as you have sufficient energy, which is equal to <some low number of energy>. These square sides may not be shot or moved through, but trapped or determined enemies will try to attack them. Damage taken to shields deducts energy from the device, which starts at <some number> and regenerates at <some number> each turn. When energy is depleted, you must wait until the device fully recharges before it may be used again. There is otherwise no way to penetrate the shields, and if something is forced into them, the device immediately depletes power equal to <a high multiplication> of the unit's health and the unit is completely vaporised. Using the device costs <a number of> AP, and allows you to reconfigure the shields.
Cost: <A number of> PP
Higher max energy: PP
Higher regeneration rate: PP
Allies may fire through shields: PP

Spoiler: Hero Class Weapon: Gunsword (click to show/hide)

It appears to be a large bastard sword with a gun barrel running along the blunt edge. It weighs much more than any normal person is able to carry, let alone swing, and the bullets are of ridiculous size and design. Swinging takes <medium> AP, which does <high> damage with a <high> crit. Firing takes <medium> AP for a <medium> accuracy, <medium-high> damage, <high> crit shot. Swinging immediately after firing allows you to retain the high frequency vibrations contained in the blade, increasing damage and crit rate significantly. Firing immediately after swinging takes advantage of the extra kinetic energy via advanced energy redirectors, increasing damage and crit rate significantly.
Cost: <A number of> PP
Lower AP costs: PP
Higher damage: PP
Higher crit rate: PP

Gotcha on the perk business. Getting on it now.
I'll also get on making non-ridiculous grenade launchers.

[Cheddarius]

Meph, would you be all right with me giving you an MP5 to replace it and the price difference? How much was that, about $75?

Allstone, class weapons don't have upgrades.
I don't understand how the pistol works, and it's pretty complicated, it seems.
The device is incredibly complicated, and would make turns massive.
Gunsword sounds cool! But I want to try a different thing.

Most class weapons are complicated, but not that complicated. Medipistol, Knifarang, and Devour Rounds are very simple - they're basially just normal weapons. The Sniper is the most complicated firer, but it is still essentially a normal weapon. The AA-12, Mjolnr, and the M61 Vulcan are all regular weapons with special abilities that should not often be used.

I will make the class weapons myself, I guess.

[Mephansteras]

Sure, that's fine. Although I think it was more of a $25 difference.

[411570N3]

Basically the pistol does more damage at close range and ignores armour to some degree. That's about it. Though yeah, the shield device is ridiculously complicated.

[411570N3]

Medic

Spoiler: Flaws (click to show/hide)

SoMuchBlood: Takes extra AP to heal critical allies
Do No Harm: Will not try to harm recognisably humanoid units
Self-Blame: You lose a turn every time you learn that an ally has died

Acrobat

Spoiler: Flaws (click to show/hide)

Flourish: Critical hits use extra AP
No Traction: Moving takes double AP, and moves two squares in a straight line

Pistoleer

Spoiler: Perks (click to show/hide)

Run'n'Gun: Any <maybe a fraction of instead> AP you spend moving may also be spent shooting
Coup De Grace: Enemies with less health than you can deplete in a single shot cannot be missed.

Spoiler: Flaws (click to show/hide)

Itchy Trigger Finger: Rolling a 1 or 20 on an aim roll shoots an ally
Dozing: Starts round completely unequipped
Loose Your Cool: Will not willingly finish the turn within two squares of a zombie
Locked Up: Take an AP penalty when you kill a vaguely humanoid unit with a critical
Fair Fight: Will refuse to fire upon a human enemy that has not had a chance to fire first
Traditionalist: Unequip all pistols whenever you kill an opponent
Cocky: Will not willingly attack an enemy that would be killed by a normal hit

Shotgunner

Spoiler: Perks (click to show/hide)

BANG: If you deplete more than third of an enemy's max health in a single shot, they cannot move next turn and <maybe remove one if it's complicated> move back a square
Wall of Lead: You do not miss adjacent targets
Riot Gun: Pellets penetrate low health enemies
Mincemeat: You do extra damage to unarmoured enemies
Knife to a Gun Fight: You cannot miss enemies that hit you with melee last turn
Tight Fire Cone: If one pellet that hits crits, then all pellets that hit crit

Spoiler: Flaws (click to show/hide)

Poor penetration: You do less damage to armour
Red Smear: If an enemy goes to below -5 health (so if you do more than 5 damage overkill), they give half money
Weak Shoulders: Firing does 0.05 (0.1?) self damage
Mob Magnet: If enemies that you damage will target you and move faster
Video Game Shotguns: Reduced accuracy on shotguns

Machinegunner

Spoiler: Perks (click to show/hide)

Suppressive Fire: Enemies behind things you hit will not move out from behind them <Alternate: Firing at the same spot consecutively costs less AP/is more accurate>
Lead River: Enemies you hit cannot move towards you
<Alternate: Enemies you hit are pushed back a square if able>
Meat Grinder: Critical bullets penetrate
Wave Breaker: If you do not fire at any target twice during a turn, firing that turn takes less AP
<Alternate: Enemies on low health take extra damage>

Spoiler: Flaws (click to show/hide)

Bloodbath: Firing at the same <1x1? 3x3?> area two turns in a row reduces accuracy
Rambo Wannabe: Must move forwards each turn; reduced accuracy
Barrel Melter: Reduced accuracy; accuracy reduces if you fire more than every second turn
Muzzle Flash Blindness: Lowered crit chance

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Allstone made dozens upon dozens of weapons, so that's why. The majority of the current depot stock is from him, modified to suit the game.

Can I make art for the new weapons then? Like say, the Gauss line?