Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Drakenfar]

I'm new to this game, to this forum, so don't jump on my ass if this has been discussed.

My suggestion is making the menu items and options only available if you have the available resourses and workers. In this way people will understand how to progress through the game without needing hours of teaching by youtube or friends, which is the only way I figured out how to even start my colony.

Ex. You cannot build a farm if you don't have seed, it doesn't even show up on the menu. You cannot build a furnace if you don't have the anvil. Can't make items if you don't have the materials.

Only other thing is cutting the number of items down to make it more playable  with a smaller learning curve.

Thanks for reading, this game has enormous potential, I love the concept, just needs some tweeking, but the programming is excellent, I just don't understand why so much time was put into the programming and so little into the organization of the menu in game.

[Aquillion]

There's a "presentation arc" planned for the future where the game's interface will be overhauled.  It's on-hold now, because it's better to do it after most of the game's features are already in.

But personally, I'd say you might want to consider that there are advantages to showing players things they can't currently build.  For example, right now a player can try to build a well, and it will tell them what they need.  This is instructive, and it is one of the few things currently in the game that really helps people learn how to play through the game itself.  I think it's good to have stuff like that -- making it so things only appear when you're capable of doing them would lose that advantage.

Of course, a tutorial mode where new concepts are introduced one at a time would be even better.  That's planned for the future, too.

[n00bs4uce]

I think a better thing to add rather than not show unbuildable items and such would be adding a simple sub menu that shows what the current item requires. Like say i want to make pig iron, and I'm in the smelter menu(yes i know the smelter uses the show only possible smelts method) and I have the pig iron option selected, then I just press Q or something and it goes into a screen that shows what is needed to make it and how many of it. One of the main probs I have with the current system is the constant need to reference the wiki when the info is right there but not visible.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Standard UI convention is to grey out options that can't be used, a tool tip explaining why is also a good idea. The current UI breaks just about every convention of good UI design ever devised and most people agree it needs work, but the developers seem to loath working on the UI (which is common among programmers).

[DFPongo]

All true, the game seems to have a DI not a UI. Like the interface you would leave to reflect how the development was done, not so that a user could use it.
As to why they would do that, well the same reason anyone would does anything. They get rewarded by the community for features, and many users in the community probably like that the game is so arcane.
All the users that would thank them for a better UI have long ago abandoned the game.

[G-Flex]

No they haven't. Most of the regulars here would enjoy a better GUI, including myself.

[Shades]

most people agree it needs work, but the developers seem to loath working on the UI (which is common among poor programmers).

Fixed. A good programmer knows that UI is part of the software not just something you stick on top.

All the users that would thank them for a better UI have long ago abandoned the game.

Not true, although I admit that it's not the main focus of most people here. Personally I've love a more friendly interface even though I've gotten used to the current one.

However with regards to the topic the game is playable, what you mean is to make it easier for new players.

[Phmcw]

All true, the game seems to have a DI not a UI. Like the interface you would leave to reflect how the development was done, not so that a user could use it.
As to why they would do that, well the same reason anyone would does anything. They get rewarded by the community for features, and many users in the community probably like that the game is so arcane.
All the users that would thank them for a better UI have long ago abandoned the game.

False really. Everyone is saying always asking for a better ui. The reason it's not being done is, as usual that it's not the right time. Namely, not half the features are implemented. The building tree is no sure, we don't know how it'll work in the future, what level of control will be available, and such.
If toady make a new, fancy ui, he will have to redo it entirely at a point, and it would be wasted time.

[Solara]

As to why they would do that, well the same reason anyone would does anything. They get rewarded by the community for features, and many users in the community probably like that the game is so arcane.
All the users that would thank them for a better UI have long ago abandoned the game.

Wrong on both counts. I think Toady said he has plans to sort of go by that Eternal Voting suggestion thingy in the future, at least in regards to what things he was already going to add that he's now going to add first, but he does not currently, nor has he ever added features based on what the players want or what they're willing to donate. Which IMO is a good thing, because not to be mean or anything but a lot of the suggestions here are pretty retarded, and nobody should have more say than somebody else just because they have deeper pockets.

Secondly, I have never heard anyone defend the UI, on this forum or any other. We all know it sucks, it just doesn't get brought up anymore except by new people because, well, nobody constantly brings up the fact that rain is wet either. Being willing to put up with it because the alternative is to just not play at all is not the same as 'liking' it.

Personally I would love to see the UI improved immediately, but I do understand Toady's reasons for waiting. A lot of DF's current features are basically placeholders, it's still getting overhauled and added to in such huge ways that it would only mean doing the work over and over again - a better UI for the game as we know it now won't make sense or even apply in a lot of areas for the next release, and would need to be ripped out and drastically changed again for the next, etc.

[Hyndis]

Toady can only do so much, and while improving the UI would of course be awesome, it is relatively low on the list of priorities.

Much higher on the list of priorities is actually finishing the game. DF is still an alpha build with many features not yet in the game or put in as placeholders.

Once the core of the game is finished then the game can be polished, and that would be things such as the UI. A fancy UI without a game to interface with is just a mockup used in advertising.

[Hyndis]

Also the current UI does tend to grow on you.

Yes its not so much a learning curve as a learning cliff, but once you've got a bit of experience its incredibly fast to use. I can designate any sort of construction or building in a fraction of a second which makes laying out a large section of the fortress to be very fast. The only thing that slows me down is deciding how to design the layout. Actually doing the layout is then very fast and easy.

[DFPongo]

"Also the current UI does tend to grow on you."
All the defensiveness aside there is the truth.
What would you hazard the ratio of people who tried, and walked is to the people who tried, worked through it and are here to talk about all the other details.
I am not saying anyone did anything wrong.  I am not saying that the people who play the game love the interface, I am saying that they cannot reflect how frustrating it is, the interface grew on them, they trained themselves to understand and use it.

I am also not saying that those people who have abandoned this game for the interface will not show their interest and return when a better interface is added. They likely will and many more.

In all other areas it seems the devs have revealed their plans and concepts of where development will lead. But in regards to the UI, it feels like its just a "will be made better, is important"  kind of statement.
I think they are being honest, I think they might have the interface they have because they are very busy on game concept additions and how to make the interface better might not jump out at them.

Why not?
No one is modding a better control interface.(maybe manager)
People are modding nearly everything else in the game from content to gameplay, mods are prototypes that can lead to thought and discussion and implementation.
With out that we just have discussion, like this.

[Kilo24]

Just making currently unbuildable structures vanish from the lists would be hell.  Looking through all the build menus, not sure where the exact building you want is is a large enough problem already.  Imagine doing that while you're not 100% sure if you have the materials to build it and you can't find the building you want, but you don't know whether you're not looking at the correct section of the menu or it just won't appear on the list.
Greying them out is a much better idea.

The OP's idea isn't bad for other games with less structures and more diverse building requirements, but the majority of DF buildings can be built from either wood or stone, and all of those will be shown unless you have desperate resource problems.  It simply doesn't eliminate enough buildings from the list to be worthwhile enough to counteract the problem I mentioned in the first paragraph.

[Jude]

The current UI doesn't GROW on you, rather it stops being horrible and you get used to it. But it still blows. Toady knows it. I assume the main reason not to work on it is because he doesn't want to spend a ton of time putting it together, only to go on developing and end up with all kinds of new game elements that have to be jury-rigged in, to the point that it ends up like it is now, all over again. I'd expect a decent interface to be one of the last things we see.

I.e., it'll be a couple decades.

[nenjin]

Toady better take a month or two off to reproduce, because he's going to need kids to carry on his legacy.