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[Strife26]

Actually, it's a reference to the Salvation War, a fun little story on Star Destroyer.net.

For the record, I'd go for the normal "my God is a loving God, therefore, whomever said that is no God of mine" line of reasoning, then go do my best to blow Satan and this false god up.

[Realmfighter]

I'm really sad that its in permanent hiatus.

[Leafsnail]

Actually, it's a reference to the Salvation War, a fun little story on Star Destroyer.net.

For the record, I'd go for the normal "my God is a loving God, therefore, whomever said that is no God of mine" line of reasoning, then go do my best to blow Satan and this false god up.

The implication of this being that it's suddenly all up to us to choose what our god is.

But whatever.  Good luck in the army.  By the way, I'm not sure how it works - do you know if you'll be deployed into a warzone before you sign up, or do they only tell you later?

[Jude]

@ Civil war comment: Yeah we could have just let the south go (and hell, probably should have, for all the good it's doing us having them in the country now) but once it was decided not to, they went on the offensive and penetrated into Union territory. So any battles fought there would qualify as defending the US. So would the revolutionary war, I'd say.

Oh?  So we weren't defending our country by fighting the axis powers, who had already bombed us and threatened to take us over anyway if they weren't stopped overseas?

It's really a stretch to call it "defending your country" when no attempt is being made to invade your country

Fighting off the bombers at Pearl Harbor would have been defending the country

We weren't defending our country when we entered (and helped to break the stalemate) of WWI when the Zimmermen note was intercepted?

See above

We weren't defending our country when trying to track down terrorist groups in the middle east?

No

that's part pre-emptive offense and part revenge; defending the country would be thwarting their attacks, which is presumably going on, but by other agencies than the military

So please, stop raining on Strife's parade.

Looks like someone didn't read the OP....

[Jude]

The last time America defended basic freedom wasn't that long ago. You could argue about our current wars, but the Gulf War is unarguably defense of territorial sovereignty.

Oh, that's totally true. Although you absolutely can't make the case that we did it because our motives are pure, or something. Otherwise there are countless other situations in the world where we would/should/could have intervened and did not. If your country does something good, but for selfish/manipulative reasons, and your reason for serving your country is because of morality, then where does that leave your moral case?

In case you don't know, I'm referring to things like us not doing jack shit about Darfur, supporting oppressive governments like Saudi Arabia and Israel and many others, sponsoring overthrows of legitimate governments...based on this, you can't make a case that defending America is defending morality. Any attempts to equate any country's cause or interests with morality (but especially so for a superpower/empire like America) lead to an impossible moral quagmire and only serve the purpose of jingoism.

[Aqizzar]

For the record, I'd go for the normal "my God is a loving God, therefore, whomever said that is no God of mine" line of reasoning, then go do my best to blow Satan and this false god up.

C'mon, Satan never gets any love.  No fans of Paradise Lost here I see.

[Strife26]

For the record, I'd go for the normal "my God is a loving God, therefore, whomever said that is no God of mine" line of reasoning, then go do my best to blow Satan and this false god up.

C'mon, Satan never gets any love.  No fans of Paradise Lost here I see.

I chose to read Inferno over Paradise for my current English project.

And Salvation War isn't dead, the last update on book two was six days ago!

[Aqizzar]

I chose to read Inferno over Paradise for my current English project.

Damn, that's a tough choice if you can only do one.  You do know the title is The Divine Comedy right?  Inferno is just the famous part.

[Realmfighter]

And Salvation War isn't dead, the last update on book two was six days ago!

HOLY SHIT.

ITS GOOGLE TIME!
*EDIT*

Fuck yes!

[Aqizzar]

As long as it's being discussed here, since Strife is a fan of it, what is this Salvation War and what's so great about it?  Because being hosted on a "stardestroyer.net" it sounds like a paragon of amateur writing.

Am I being too lazy to Google it myself?  No.  I'm giving you fans an opportunity to gush about this story to sell me on it.

[Realmfighter]

Heaven decree that the world is over, and hell is coming to repossess our souls, and they tell everyone to lay down and die.

We kill Satan in the course of a month.

[Creaca]

Jude, the Southern States where hands down some of the largest money makers in the union at the time. The only reason the north even won that war was  the fact that the Norths Naval Superiority allowed them to blockade southern ports, and that the European powers where too busy to jump at the chance to defend their cotton supplys and fracture the US.

The revolutionary war was absolutely started by America. I don't want to have to repeat American History class for everyone, but suffice to say, taxes and the "Boston Massacre" don't really count as an attack on our soil. That's of course discounting the fact it technicly was Britains soil at the time.

As for the South not doing anything for America today, that's just blatant ignorance.

It's really a stretch to call it "defending your country" when no attempt is being made to invade your country

Fighting off the bombers at Pearl Harbor would have been defending the country

When you have a Wasp nest outside your house, and you are stung by wasps. Do you decide to just hang back and slap the wasps as they come, or do you attack them at thier source?

I don't know about you, but I'd prefer a military that targets and attacks threats before we've got enemy forces on our shores.

[Aqizzar]

Jude, the Southern States where hands down some of the largest money makers in the union at the time. The only reason the north even won that war was  the fact that the Norths Naval Superiority allowed them to blockade southern ports, and that the European powers where too busy to jump at the chance to defend their cotton supplys and fracture the US.

Well, they thought they were the largest money makers at the time.  The Europeans didn't come to the South's aid because cotton plantations in Egypt and India (British colonies of course) were supplanting it.  That's part of why the war started at all, was because the South's cotton wealth was diminishing and Southern legislators wanted punishing trade deals and tariffs to protect their market share.

The North won partly because it had the vastly larger fleet, but also because they had three times the people and virtually all heavy manufacturing and industry, including every cannon foundry in the country.  What the South had was determination (most Southern troops being ideologically committed, if ignorantly) and experience, since most of the American officer corps were second-sons of plantation families.  Northern troops were mostly draftees, immigrants, and state guardsmen.  You can see how this turned out in the course of the war, since the North utterly won despite frequently losing twice or more the number of soldiers in every battle.

The Revolutionary War is a whole other can of worms I don't want to go into unless necessary.  I'll just say that essentially nobody even considered America a separate nation or talked of secession from Britain until 1775, and even then it was mostly a threat to get Parliament to negotiate better terms of colony management.  It kinda went downhill from there.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Surprisingly, this thread took longer than I expected to turn into an uncivilized "I am more intelligent than thou, my opinions are objective facts" internet wankfest.

Bay12 still is better than most of the net.

Good luck out there Strife, whatever your reasons.

[Creaca]

Leave it to Aquzzar to set me strait.

I wish you'd post more about your views on all this though Aqizzar, I seriously want to know your stance on the Iraq war.