And yet you never seem to wonder why. Why would they? Why would they risk life and limb to do that? Simple pure satanic hatred? You know something like that doesn't exist, doesn't fall out of a clear sky.
Have you studied the teachings of Osama bin Laden? You're a complete waste of time.
You don't wonder and you don't care.
You're projecting your own ignorance onto me; it is you who have no idea what's really going on. If you did you would understand my reasoning.
People like you and them make the rest of the world a sad place.
So long as there are people like them there need to be people like me. Sad or not the world is what it is. I prefer sadness to ignorance.
If it's not torture you wouldn't mind someone boarding you then?
I don't want to be arrested and imprisoned, either, yet I have no problem doing that to rapists, thieves, and telemarketers. What's your point?
But it is traumatic and therefore has the potential to have lingering ill psychological effects.
That's the whole point. If you don't break them they don't talk. Whether or not that is an "ill" psychological effect depends on your point of view; I would consider Khalid Sheik Muhammad ill before he was waterboarded. Moreover, he went from murdering madman to life-saving intelligence asset thanks to what we might call "waterboard therapy". That sounds like a cure to me.
Isn't that true with all torture that isn't done purely for sick pleasure?
Of course not. Many countries, and indeed the terrorists themselves, engage in torture to intimidate and frighten their enemies. That's the primary reason the argument that waterboarding encourages them to torture us is ludicrous: the motivations are completely different.
all I can say is wow...
You're welcome. I do hope I have helped you have a more open mind.
Have you ever felt as if you were drowning 183 times in a row?
What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? I'd be singing like a canary after 3, 4 tops. Our enemies, being religious fanatics, are possessed of almost supernatural-seeming psychological willpower by their deeply-held faith in their God, so it takes a few extra passes on the 'board to get them deprogrammed.
Their faith is their greatest strength, but it can be broken with the right tools intelligently applied. So, too, can the march of science be broken by ignorance and superstition. This time around Galileo has an army and a waterboard, but the fight isn't over until the last terrorist sputters out the location of the last cache of improvised explosives ... or the last artist beheaded and the last library burned. It's our choice, really, our fight to win or lose.
Seriously. You don't know jack shit. [list of IDF / Palestinian military engagements]
You've got to be kidding. Acts of war happen during wartime. People die and bad shit happens. Democracies are magnets for war; they are constantly under attack and constantly forced to defend themselves.
The fact that the Israelis are constant victims of a perpetual war waged against them is a symptom of their being a democracy, not a disqualifier.
Nor for that matter is the alleged "suffering" of the Palestinians. If they were really suffering they'd end the war. The Russians would have pulverized the Palestinans 100 times over by now. America has firebombed cities on less provocation. For being at war the Palestinians have it remarkably easy. Let them start shelling Russia or America and let's see how long they last.
Palestinians wage war on Israel and pretend to be victims not because they are victims but because they are not. If the Israelis truly didn't fight fair -- whatever that means in time of war -- the Palestinans would end the war and beg for mercy, not claim their intifida will "drive the Jews into the sea". Victims my ass -- they're not victims, they're just on the extreme edge of pathetic: they suck at waging war. Their incompetence is not my problem.
Also, "constant rain of suicide bombers" lol. Looks like someone hasn't been reading any news from there for the past couple years
They switched from suicide bombers to artillery barrages after Israel built the wall. How enlightened. (I mentioned the artillery attacks in the OP, BTW. Guess you missed it.)
The majority of the Guantanamo Bay suspects, for example, were just dudes
We didn't waterboard every schlub we brought in for questioning. We waterboarded like half a dozen terrorist leaders, one of whom, Khalid Sheik Muhammad, masterminded 9/11. Also, incidentally, every criminal in prison is innocent -- you can ask them! And every prisoner at Gitmo was tortured, same reason.
And yet the US refuses to talk with this democratically chosen entity.
They're waging war on one of our allies. If we're going to do for them they need to do for us. The intifada is a deal-breaker.
Also I find it odd that people wouldn't talk to the Hamas government because they're terrorists, but the Olmert government could rack up a death toll much higher than a decade (or more)'s worth of Hamas attacks in "Operation Cast Lead" and not be terrorists and still be worthy to talk to
You've answered your own question: the IDF wear uniforms and follow the rules of war, therefore they're not terrorists. Body count is irrelevant. Hamas wages war covertly, intentionally targets Israeli civilians, intentionally puts their own civilians in harm's way, and uses children as human shields. These are the things America objects to, not the understandable casualties resulting from war. We once killed over 200,000 people in a single bombing raid -- we would be hypocrites were we to complain about the casualties of other countries' wars.
They are locked in a mindset of thousands of years of hate and resentment
The Israelis would stop fighting tomorrow if the Palestinians would do the same. And "thousands of years of hate?" WTF? The Ottoman Turks got along fine with the Jews, and even encouraged them to immigrate. Where are you learning your history?
Well there were like wikipedia links in between showing how oppressive Israel is
The irony of calling Israel "oppressive" is that they're about the least-oppressive military opponent in world history. Russia would've turned Palestine into Grozny.
a 3000-year-old fairy tale
And yet another ignoramus takes yet another prize in Ottoman Turkish history. Like it or not, the Jews that weren't already living in Israel were invited there as immigrants. You want them gone? Too fucking bad. They've got guns, so you're going to need a bigger army.
settler movement, which is THE biggest obstacle to peace, bar none, terrorists included)
Bullshit. The Israelis have been fighting for their lives since the day their tribe was granted a nation (as many other tribes in the Middle East were in the dissolution of the British Mandate, but nobody hates Jordanians quite like they hate Jews.)
When the State of Israel was created the Israelis had to fight for their lives. When their neighbors blockaded their ports they once again had to fight for their lives. Then again on a religious holiday as holy to Jews as Christmas is to Christians they're fighting off a massive invasion once again just for the privilege of staying alive. Today they've beaten the odds, built an incredibly powerful military machine, much of it indigenous as a result of constant arms embargoes against them, and they've become very good at fighting for their lives. Yet the fight is still forced upon them.
Not to go all Godwin's Law here, but the Israelis are literally fighting Nazis, people who were allied with Hitler in WWII, who organized an all-volunteer SS division, and who teach their children that Allah loves them most when they kill Jews.
The "land issue" is hatred of Jews in disguise. If it were a Jordanian / Syrian border dispute nobody would care.
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