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Author Topic: two tiles wide walls? why?  (Read 4806 times)

kcwong

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2010, 01:51:24 am »

They might say to do that so you can fit 2 doors or 2 lines of floodgates, if your defense involves those.  That way if someone drops a sock in the door when they see a goblin and run, you will still have one functional layer of doors to lock. 

Still there is no need to use 2-tiles thick walls everywhere...

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Aachen

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2010, 07:47:36 pm »

In essence, practically worthless and a significant intensification of labor? Doesn't that sound precisely what dwarfs go for, i. e.....

1. Build impenetrable wall.
2. Expand said wall in all dimensions (including removal of native stone downward to make space for wall).
3. ???
4. Profit!

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XSI

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2010, 03:36:48 am »

I think the simplest reason for making double walls is this.

Diagonal movement. If you make double walls then there is a lot less chance of forgetting a corner, and the more layers of walls you have, the less chance something goes horribly wrong.

Unless you're making layers of 3 or more thick, dwarves will wall themselves in.

I personally use 4-wide, 3-heigh walls for my outside defences, if I use outside defences..Hey, I got all that stone, might as well use it. And for the masonry experience I turn it all into blocks first.

From the dwarves' perspective, I'm sure this is a better job to do then hauling rocks to a dump site, and then hauling all those rocks to an other dump site just because it happens to be the only job.
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Jetman123

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2010, 06:06:22 am »

Ettins and certain other megabeasts CAN penetrate walls. I've seen it happen. However, they only do as such when it's directly in their way and there's no way around. It may also depend on the construction material.
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Aspgren

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2010, 06:24:17 am »

two-tile walls allow for double doors.

... that's something. I guess.
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Sphalerite

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2010, 08:36:04 am »

Ettins and certain other megabeasts CAN penetrate walls. I've seen it happen. However, they only do as such when it's directly in their way and there's no way around. It may also depend on the construction material.
This can only happen if the wall is under construction at the time.  Fully constructed walls are indestructible to any and all megabeasts.
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Puck

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2010, 10:43:22 am »

Yeah, I'd rather see some proof for this preposterous (and scary) claim!

Hyndis

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2010, 10:57:49 am »

Building destroyers can destroy buildings. Things like workshops, doors, grates, floodgates, etc.

Nothing can destroy a constructed wall/floor. Not even magma. Build a wall out of ice and have it hold back a flood of magma, and the ice will be completely untouched. Forever.

Bridges are somewhat unique. While a bridge cannot be destroyed by a building destroyer a bridge can be destroyed by magma is you are using a mechanism that is not magma safe.

Note that even retracted grates or hatches can be destroyed, but bridges cannot be destroyed by any creature unless you attempt to crush a megabeast with one.
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Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2010, 11:01:23 am »

One very, very good policy is always to put a line of channels in front of your walls. Reason being, if an enemy can stand next to your fortifications and shoot *in*, they'll get the benefit of your fortifications *against* whomever's inside your fortress.
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DooMJake

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2010, 11:12:22 am »

Why do you put fortifications on the ground level? I usually put them at ground+1
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Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2010, 11:13:11 am »

Why do you put fortifications on the ground level? I usually put them at ground+1

Yeah, that's option B. But sometimes you want fortifications at ground level for seige engines.
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Puck

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2010, 11:25:29 am »

Bridges are somewhat unique. While a bridge cannot be destroyed by a building destroyer a bridge can be destroyed by magma is you are using a mechanism that is not magma safe.

Note that even retracted grates or hatches can be destroyed, but bridges cannot be destroyed by any creature unless you attempt to crush a megabeast with one.
Maybe tantruming dwarves are different, but I am fairly confident those have destroyed retractable bridges of mine.

Not sure in what state the bridges were at that moment, but still, fairly confident it was crazy dwarves that tore them down.

I'm sure I had a retractable bridge as entrance to several forts. I'm sure they were never even close to magma. And I'm sure they got destroyed several times. Each and everytime some dwarf was going crazy at that time.

G-Flex

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2010, 11:42:24 am »

Ettins and certain other megabeasts CAN penetrate walls. I've seen it happen. However, they only do as such when it's directly in their way and there's no way around. It may also depend on the construction material.
This can only happen if the wall is under construction at the time.  Fully constructed walls are indestructible to any and all megabeasts.

Yep. A construction that's still under-construction isn't a construction yet; it's treated like a building. So walls and floors and such that aren't completed yet can get wrecked by building-destroyers.
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Puck

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2010, 12:11:22 pm »

Maybe if you want to put a door in a single tile wide wall, you have an undesired opening for some time. If the wall is two tiles wide, you can remove one, put the door there, then remove the other piece of wall, and tadaaa, you just integrated a door in your wall, safely.

However, why not just make the wall 2 tiles wide when needed is beyond me.

So maybe the golden rule of thumb can be transformed to "always PLAN for two tile wide walls, even if you just build it one tile wide."

Jacob/Lee

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Re: two tiles wide walls? why?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2010, 01:41:04 pm »

Making thicker walls only gives your dwarves more room to move so they won't waste time climbing over eachother.
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