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Author Topic: CCS now under development  (Read 32799 times)

LordBucket

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2010, 07:04:23 am »

UPDATE

Ok. It's official. Issues will be customizable for each game. However, things are now sufficiently complicated that describing issues is no longer a matter is simply making a list. I'll try to explain, with the example of animal rights:

Animal rights
 1 Animals have no legal protections of any kind
 2 Some minimal handling guidelines exist to insure the quality of our food
 3 Animals are granted some humanitarian legal protections from excessive cruelty
 4 It is illegal to harm or eat any animal
 5 All creatures are given equal recognizance by the law
 6 Animals are duly recognized as superior to mere humans, and no animal may be held accountable to a human
 7 (Human sacrifices/Virgins) are given to our animal masters at (churches/homes/courthouses) daily.

Top and bottom are extreme ends of the issue.

First thing we'll notice is that we're no longer limited to five levels of change. Issues can vary by any number of levels, and not all issues need the same number of levels. Win and start conditions do not necessarily need to match an extreme. For example, you could start a game at level 2, and only need to change the issue to level 5 in order to have a win condition for this issue.

Second thing, it is not neccesary for it to even be possible to reach an extreme within a game. For example, let's say your target for animal rights is level 5, and you've reached your goal, and current law is at level 5. But...you continue performing site actions that cause public opinion to shift to level 6. Games can be confiured to either allow law to continue to change past your goal, thus requiring you to backtrack in the other direction, or they can be configued to simply stop at your target, never proceeding beyond no matter what you do.

Third, not all issues need to be included in every game. For example, it would possible to have animal rights completely not even appear on your issues list, and have no effect on the game whatsoever. Similarly, it would also be possible to have animal rights be the only issue in the game.

Fourth and fifth, issues may contain components within any given level that are subject to change based on other issues. For example, at level 7 above you'll see (Human sacrifices/Virgins). If the corporal punishment issue is at an extremely low level, society will not accept the notion of human sacrifice. If sexual morality is very prudish, society will not accept the notion of giving virgins to animals to use for sex. Issue texts are subject to change based on these requirements, and dependancies may exist. In this case, if corporal punishment is low and sexual morality is very high, it can be made not possible for animal rights to ever reach level 7 regardless of public opinion on the matter because it depends on at least one of those other issues being in place first.

Finally, there are a variety of broad game "modes" of which some do and some don't directly relate to issues. For example, it is possible to have a simple liberals versus conservatives game where you fight to change public opinion over issues. But, it's also possible to play a gender or race based war where the only issue is the genocide or subjugation of another group.

So, that's the current plan. It's not complete, but the skeleton is partially in place. This will of course add a significant amount of time before any alpha is available. Probably a few weeks.

It also means the name will have to change. This is no longer conservative crime squad at all. It's not even political crime squad anymore. But somehow just "crime squad" doesn't sound right.

I'm open to suggestions.

Toady Two

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2010, 07:20:12 am »

If were going over the top anti-liberal like this then make L++ abortion laws allow parents to legally euthanize their children at their discretion until they reach maturity, age 18 or 21 or whatever.
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LordBucket

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2010, 07:36:26 am »

parents to legally euthanize their children

I like it. Added.

EuchreJack

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2010, 10:04:01 am »

If you call it "Custom Crime Squad", you needn't change the title.

Servant Corps

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2010, 01:22:47 pm »

How would backtracking work in Custom Crime Squad?
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2010, 01:31:50 pm »

Sounds awesome.

How would backtracking work in Custom Crime Squad?

I want to know this too. How do you reverse the course of an issue? In LCS it's never come up for obvious reasons, so no mechanic exists for it. Here, you probably need some way to determine what you're arguing for.
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LordBucket

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2010, 04:41:04 pm »

How would backtracking work

Some issues-changing methods will be intelligent. For example, if you're writing article and placing television ads, you'll always place ads that will attempt to sway public opinion in the direction you need. No need to be prompted every time.

The most direct methods will come from site actions and squad behavior.

For example, let's say you've gone too far on energy policy, and every home now has a portable nuclear reactor in its basement. So you break into some apartments and set one off. This would shift public opinion back away from nuclear energy. Or let's say you still have "liberal" media functioning in your society. You could to break into their offices and replace their scripts so for a short while they'll be praising your cause instead of theirs. It will generally be possible to be very specific about what you want to accomplish during a site action. But this works both ways: making people hate corporations is no longer a matter of shooting people in corporate offices. You have to actually do something that makes people hate corporations.

As to squad behavior, there are two major changes:

First, the primary methods of opinion and public interest change is receiving a slight conceptual change from LCS. The basic idea is to more closely tie the squads behavior to how public opinion is changed, instead of tying it primarily to sites. For example, let's take gun control. If the squad goes into the local mall and guns down a dozen people, public opinion will shift in favor of gun control. But, if the squad goes to the same mall with katanas and cuts people down instead, public opinion will shift against gun control. Reason being, "if we had guns we could have defended ourselves." This does cause the game to does lose most of its potential for comical irony, but as someone pointed out a few pages ago, this isn't LCS. We can take it in new directions.

Second, it will also be possible to sway some issues intelligently by using disguises to lead the public to believe the raid was performed by someone else. If you want public opinion to sway away from religion, disguise yourself as a bunch of priests and go on a killing spree. If you want people to hate the police, dress up as police when you do your bad deeds. Changing opinion in either direction will be possible in this way whether or not you've "passed" your target goal for an issue. Of course, as with LCS, a failed attempt can result in a backfire: if people realize it was really an antipolice group trying to frame the police, they'll rally in favor of police even more strongly than before.

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2010, 05:14:41 pm »

Second, it will also be possible to sway some issues intelligently by using disguises to lead the public to believe the raid was performed by someone else. If you want public opinion to sway away from religion, disguise yourself as a bunch of priests and go on a killing spree. If you want people to hate the police, dress up as police when you do your bad deeds. Changing opinion in either direction will be possible in this way whether or not you've "passed" your target goal for an issue. Of course, as with LCS, a failed attempt can result in a backfire: if people realize it was really an antipolice group trying to frame the police, they'll rally in favor of police even more strongly than before.

What if you're pro-police and have an intentional backfiring while rampaging around wearing police uniforms? Do you make people rally for police, or will the public identify the action with a pro-police group and think you're all a bunch of insane pigs, in or out of uniform?
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Duuvian

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2010, 05:40:35 pm »

UPDATE
It also means the name will have to change. This is no longer conservative crime squad at all. It's not even political crime squad anymore. But somehow just "crime squad" doesn't sound right.

I'm open to suggestions.

How about just Political Crime Squad or Social Crime Squad?

Also, if I'm understanding your post correctly, we could set all our squad's target issues to the closest to how we feel in real life, and then would endeavor to change society to our personal utopia whether it is liberal, conservative, or just plain crazy?
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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LordBucket

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2010, 09:04:13 pm »

What if you're pro-police and have an intentional backfiring while rampaging around wearing police
uniforms? Do you make people rally for police, or will the public identify the action with a
pro-police group and think you're all a bunch of insane pigs, in or out of uniform?

Both will happen. Deliberately failing to impersonate a group is an acceptable tactic, if you can pull it off and are willing to accept the consequences. However, due to diminishing returns and caps on change both per site action and per full point of legal shift on any issue, I think it will only be game-breaking for games in which the player deliberately configures issues to make it viable as a sole strategy.

For example, let's say a player configures a game with only one issue: police support. And they set the game up to start at the L level, with a win condition at the M level. In this case, yes...it would be relatively easy to get a couple police uniforms on some fresh recruits and send them in one at a time to fail their disguise roll and then commit some crimes to generate support for the police. Do it right, and by the end of the first week laws will be proposed. Do it once or twice more during the second week to counteract the effects of the liberal media, and you could get the law changed by the end of the second week and win the game.

But if a player is going to go to those lengths for an easy win condition, I'm not going to stop him.

LordBucket

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2010, 09:05:52 pm »

we could set all our squad's target issues to the closest to how we feel in
real life, and then would endeavor to change society to our personal utopia
whether it is liberal, conservative, or just plain crazy?

That's the plan.

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2010, 09:12:37 pm »

Diminishing returns sounds good. Will all the issues be active, even if you only pick a handful of them to be part of your agenda?
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LordBucket

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2010, 01:00:16 am »

Will all the issues be active, even if you only pick
a handful of them to be part of your agenda?

I haven't built the interface yet, but the plan is that in a custom game you'll be able to configure two sets of sliders for each issue. One slider determines start and win states, the other determines allowable states. Anytime the second slider is set with both min and max states at the same level, that issue can never be changed in game. But, a player can set what level the laws function at during the game. So, for example, you could play a game with whatever issues you care about, but fix gun control to allow limitless purchase and carrying of firearms and have it stay that way regardless of what you did in the game. Or configure it to make them not even available in the game. In a case like that, the legal conditions of the issue will be in in effect, but the issue won't appear on player's list and no laws will ever change it, so the player will never see it.

EuchreJack

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #88 on: February 17, 2010, 12:15:32 am »

Can we customize issues, so as to create our own for the game?

Neonivek

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Re: CCS now under development
« Reply #89 on: February 17, 2010, 10:41:47 am »

I originally sort of stayed away from Liberal Crime Squad because I thought it was one of those stupid satires you see all the time. (I played Freeware games a lot back then)

A lot of people probably look at the game and think so too

But anyone who actually plays LCS should get the point that the game really isn't serious in the slightest. Both C+ and L+ are drastically different then its real life counterpart and both how the Conservatives and Liberals act within both are also different (Seeing the Conservative alarm for the first time is what made me realise this game was joking)

What I am saying is. Don't be too afraid about offending people because it will happen. Not may, it will.

Edit addition: Though that is not to say you should be careless.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 02:05:47 pm by Neonivek »
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