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[LordBucket]

Zombie horror? Mind if you show it please?

Certainly. It's a module for T3, so first thing is to go here and find the installer for your operating system. Zombie Horror was last updated for alpha17, so it's possible the current alpha 19 might or might not be compatible. Here are direct links to the alpha17 downloads:

Windows (direct link)
Mac (direct link)
Linix (direct link)

Once ToME is installed, run tome3.exe, and menu option C will allow you to install modules. Zombie Horror is towards the bottom of the list. If you have trouble of some kind, the module can be manually downloaded from here.

Note that Zombie Horror gives audio danger ques. Playing with sound ON is highly recommended, and preferably at night if you want the full effect. Once you're in the game, ? will give you a help menu. If you're running a relatively recent version of windows and you get strange display issues with the game (invisible tiles, "trails" etc.) try tome3-sdl.exe instead of tome3.exe.

Gameplay tip: Things will be much easier if you buy a flashlight at the mall the first couple times you play.

Have fun slaying zombies.

[Servant Corps]

That sort of arrangement avoids most of the arguments going on in the previous CCS thread. I get the impression that a lot of people in that thread personally identify with either group...think of themselves as a liberal, or a conservative, and so they're tending to design issues around their personal preference. Here, my goal is to make both extremes ridiculous.

Well, there usually have to be a reason for the militiancy and the terrorism, and that reason is likely "This is the correct and only right sort of policy, and since it is right, I can do whatever it takes to promote it."

It'd be hard for the CCS to argue exactly why a race of subhuman mutants should be created.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Yeah, I was one of those pushing for more positive spin on C+ for CCS, and I'm pretty liberal in reality. If you make it so you're just fighting to turn one dystopia into another, your guys aren't the heroes of the story anymore, and the player doesn't really have anything worth fighting for. Perhaps make them over-optimistic in many ways, like how in LCS you can nearly eliminate rich people through taxation, but I think it should still be something where your player won't have to struggle to understand why their characters would fight for it.

[LordBucket]

Servant Corps:
It'd be hard for the CCS to argue exactly why a
race of subhuman mutants should be created.

It would be easy for them to justify. For example:

"God has given us dominion over the beasts of the earth. Animals are here for us to do with us we please. As for chemicals research, the whole purpose of the testing phase is to find out how they will affect humans. Performing tests on rats and monkeys doesn't give as accurate a test as testing on humans. But, of course, we don't want to expose ourselves to possibly dangerous things, so we've bio-engineered a race of human-like animals, who are close enough for testing, but still beneath us and suitable for servitude, both as laboratory animals as well as for hard, manual labor."

See? Both self serving and hypocritical. It's perfect.

Jonathan S. Fox
If you make it so you're just fighting to turn one dystopia into another, your guys
aren't the heroes of the story anymore, and the player doesn't really have anything worth fighting for

I find this an interesting perspective. Personally, I wouldn't want to live in the world that LCS creates. When I play...I don't think of them as the "good guys." I think of them as self-righteous psycopaths fighting to create a "Brave New World."

Jonathan S. Fox
I think it should still be something where your player won't
have to struggle to understand why their characters would fight for it.

Once again...I find your perspective interesting. The way you say this...I get the impression you perceive the liberal crime squad as a group of people whose hearts are in the right place, in pursuit of admirable goals, but who just take things a little bit too far. To me, LCS is a game where you play as the bad guy.

I was one of those pushing for more positive spin on C+ for CCS,
and I'm pretty liberal in reality.

I have heavy libertarian leanings. To me, both the liberal and the conservative worlds are nightmares. LCS vs CCS is just a different flavor of nightmare.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

LCS is based on the real-world SLA. They said they believed in self-determination, purpose, faith, and creativity. They called their enemies facists. And then they robbed banks, kidnapped and brainwashed a woman, and assassinated a popular liberal school superintendent. Yes, they're bad guys. But in their eyes, they thought they were the heroes of the story.

Just as every teenage anarchist that tries to provoke a riot must think he or she is fighting back against the oppressive machine, your radicals need to believe they're in the right, or they can't justify their actions even to themselves. You can say they do, but if you give them goals that nobody in our society would support, including themselves, then you're not satire anymore, you're just making stuff up.

Essentially, you're talking about taking the concept of "What if the right wing started fighting for a revolution in modern America?" and turning it into "What if crazy people that have views that nobody in the real world actually agrees with started fighting for a revolution in modern America?" The original concept is much more interesting.

[Calvin]

But the concept of who's/what's wrong and right. For example, in say, the World War. The Allies would think they would be the good guys, and the Axis would think they would be the good guys, but they would both call eachother enemies. The Axis thought what they were doing was the right thing to do, but thought that the Allies were doing the wrong thing. Really, it depends on the opinion.

In CCS, what I would think of it, I think we should make it look like the CCS are the heroes, and the Liberals are the bad guys.

[Deon]

OK, what? A sauce turning corpses into zombies? And all zombies turned back to people upon the killing of the "carrier"? That was... unexpected .

[irmo]

While we're on the subject, is animal testing enough of a core liberal issue to justify two sites and all Lab Techs and Eminent Scientists as enemies? The message seems to be that Science in general is bad, which (what with evolution and global warming) is really more of a conservative attitude.

It would make more sense to have, say, an Investment Bank, or even a Televangelist Church.

[LordBucket]

A sauce turning corpses into zombies? And all zombies turned back to
people upon the killing of the "carrier"?

Heh. Sounds like you're making good headway through the game. Have you beat it already, or are you still dying horribly in the final gauntlet to the Master Zombie? Once people know what to do, it takes most players a couple complete playthroughs to make it through without dying.

That was... unexpected

Oh?

The game has a bunch of references to zombie games and movies. The Army of Darkness and Resident Evil references are fairly subtle, but the plotline is blatantly plaguerized from a South Park Halloween episode.

Of all the "where the zombies came from" stories, that one seemed the most ridiculous, and thus...perfect. The game is supposed to be both scary and funny. The music is really creepy if you play with the lights out, but I laughed a lot while making the game.

[LordBucket]

is animal testing enough of a core liberal issue to justify two
sites and all Lab Techs and Eminent Scientists as enemies?

I haven't written up a site list yet, I'm still woring on core mechanics at the moment, but I expect that the CCS site list will be significantly different than the LCS list.

The message seems to be that Science in general is bad, which (what with
evolution and global warming) is really more of a conservative attitude.

Part of the problem is that the "Liberal versus Conservative" dichotomy is horribly inadequete to describe real life. There are too many issues, and real life people can have a variety of opinions on any of them. Saying that "science" is consverative is a gross simplification. In my experience it's usually self-proclaimed conservatives who belive in global warming, but they don't want evolution taught in schools because they're religious. But then..."saving the planet" is easily a liberal kind of mindset, so it's easy for liberals to get buy into global warming, and there are still plenty of "old school conservatives" who aren't religious at all.

It's all very fuzzy ground.

enough of a core liberal issue to justify two sites

It's not like we're short on real estate.

[Deon]

Heh. Sounds like you're making good headway through the game. Have you beat it already, or are you still dying horribly in the final gauntlet to the Master Zombie? Once people know what to do, it takes most players a couple complete playthroughs to make it through without dying.

Actually I've played it only once. But I've managed to guess what happens before it started. So I headed to a graveyard (occasionally) then to a nuclear plant (occasionally), then I thought that because these two landmarks are close it's where the fun starts. Also I tried to pick up the sause while guys were eating it (and found tons of bandages there, because I thought that it's a place for bandages... somehow) . So, you see, I occasionally saw how it starts in a right order. Then I headed back to my home (after I looted some guns and armor and flashlights in the nuclear power plant, using my steady knife). And the phone told me the story. I haven't moved further (I saved at a phone) but I think you have to use a yacht yard to ride away or you have to kill that damned "main" zombie. One way or another.

 Probably after I had watched a lot of zombie movies, I knew what to expect from such game subconsciously. And probably you've made this game with some similar subconscious motives. Does it mean that we're zombified by zombie movies to a point we don't recognize it?

P.S. The music was not scary for me (What's with 24 y.o. and lots of watched zombie movies and played zombie games) but it seemed VERY appropriate, I really liked it (and I played it at night so the atmosphere of Inevitable Doom was great from the beginning).

[LordBucket]

turning it into "What if crazy people that have views that nobody in the real
world actually agrees with started fighting for a revolution in modern America?"

I think you're being a bit optimistic about what "nobody would believe."

Granted, it's probably a little early to be posting my issues lists, things are still very rough, but for example, here's my current Gender Equality list:

Code: [Select]

Gender Equality
 L++ It is illegal to acknowledge any difference between differently-gendered people.
 L+ Legal protections exist to ensure gender equality in the workplace.
 M No laws exist enforcing or discriminating for or against gender.
 C+ Women are legally restricted from certain positions in the military and politics.
 C++ It is illegal for women to leave the home without the escort of a male family member.

You or I personally might not want to live in the C++ world like that...but there are people who think that way. And in terms of gameplay mechanics...it creates a useful angle: female recruits must be in disguise or they create a liability. As I've said elsewhere...the closer you get to winning, the more difficult the game should become. I'm deliberately trying to desing my isssues to make it that way.

Here's another one:

Code: [Select]

The Unborn Child
 L++ DIY Abortion kits are available from free dispensers at every elementary school.
 L+ Abortion services are provided freely to anyone at state sponsored clinics
 M Abortion is legal
 C+ Abortion is legal during early stages of pregnancy
 C++ Accidental miscarriage is a crime

Now, here's one that's basically like you describe: probably nobody in the real world would really want accidental miscarriage to be a crime. And this one doesn't have any gameplay value. I don't anticipate implementing any sort of pregnancy system. As far as the player is concerned there's no difference between "accidental miscarriage is a crime" and "pregnancy is illegal in all terms." So this one is purely for shock value. It's a design choice. Some people may find it uncomfortable, but some people I think will appreciate the humor. In my mind, CCS is supposed to be crazy.

your radicals need to believe they're in the right, or they
can't justify their actions even to themselves.

They do. Just like islamic jihadists believe that they're serving god when they blow themselves up. Just like the people who gatecrash the funerals of gay men with signs saying that God hates fags believe in what they're doing.

We might think that kind of thing is fantastically beyond what any reasonable human being could believe...but people do believe this stuff.

I think my C++ issues are not as "beyond reality" as you might prefer them to be. I'm willing to juggle things to keep it from  going too far, but that line is going to be drawn in different places for different people.

Personally, just like you find it funny that the LCS uses guns to kill people to protest gun ownership...I think it's hilarious that the CCS is going to work so very hard to install laws that will turn around and bite them.

[Deon]

OK sorry I had made multiple edits before I finally re-submitted my previous post . It's 9 AM here and I haven't slept the whole night writing a program for LabView for my university. Thanks god I had some time to play your awesome module, it gave me some breathing space.

[Cheddarius]

I dunno... I think you need to make C+ more positive and L+ more negative. For example:
L++   Research testing is forbidden. Cosmetics and pharmecueticals are dispensed directly to the public.
This is extremely annoying.
C++   Subhuman mutants have been bio-engineered as a race of fallow test subjects.
This is terrifying. I think most of the people here would not like to play a game where this is one of the goals.
L++ It is illegal to acknowledge any difference between differently-gendered people.
This is totally insane, but it's still just... meh. I mean, nobody's really being harmed or anything.
C++ It is illegal for women to leave the home without the escort of a male family member.
This is extremely scary.

Now this:
L++ DIY Abortion kits are available from free dispensers at every elementary school.
This is friggin' scary. Add that children are found dead in the thousands botching their abortions, and that is truly a liberal dystopia. If you can make all the L+ goals sound like this, CCS will be a great game.

[Deon]

C++   Subhuman mutants have been bio-engineered as a race of fallow test subjects.
This is terrifying. I think most of the people here would not like to play a game where this is one of the goals.

I would love it (clap clap). Probably I am a type of a person who sees uberconservative government to be quite fascist (it means it doesn't consider genetical mutants as "real people" and should be able to use them for research) while L++ should consider everyone equal even if it's dangerous or even absurd.