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Author Topic: Unexplainable game/system slowdown (Resolved)  (Read 9540 times)

Lost Requiem

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2010, 07:03:40 pm »

I'm referring to the fact that my monitor is running off of the graphics card. Games like San Andreas and even Dragon Age don't experience the same problems unless the problem already happened, and with Diablo II, even if it is an archaic game, these things don't occur at all. After a few minutes, even, the problem will go away, and everything will begin to run smooth again, until I try to open up certain games.

If it is a failing graphics card, wouldn't the symptoms be happening ALL THE TIME instead of whenever I try to play a game? And even then, why is it affecting a 2D game like DF or not affecting Dragon Age at all? I looked around online, and none of the symptoms are conclusive with what I'm dealing with. I get optimum performance at first, but then it turns to shit after a few minutes, but only with certain games from varying time periods.
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Ayeohx

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2010, 08:08:37 pm »

So we think we've got a heat issue.  250+F... yeah, that's way too hot.

What overclocking software is installed?
I'd like to know what boot start apps are running.  PC Wizard has an option for that in the Configuration options in the left pane.
You mentioned that other games are having problems?  Which ones?
Drivers are a bit old.  Uninstall / install the latest.  Yeah, I know, new drivers don't fix much usually.  Don't care.  We're running out of options.
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Volatar

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2010, 08:39:00 pm »

I'm referring to the fact that my monitor is running off of the graphics card. Games like San Andreas and even Dragon Age don't experience the same problems unless the problem already happened, and with Diablo II, even if it is an archaic game, these things don't occur at all. After a few minutes, even, the problem will go away, and everything will begin to run smooth again, until I try to open up certain games.

If it is a failing graphics card, wouldn't the symptoms be happening ALL THE TIME instead of whenever I try to play a game? And even then, why is it affecting a 2D game like DF or not affecting Dragon Age at all? I looked around online, and none of the symptoms are conclusive with what I'm dealing with. I get optimum performance at first, but then it turns to shit after a few minutes, but only with certain games from varying time periods.

You still might very well be able to get a shiny new replacement card. I think its a hardware related overheating issue. Maybe thermal paste.

You don't happen to have any thermal paste around do you?
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Lost Requiem

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2010, 11:42:38 pm »

I have no thermal paste. And what drivers should I reinstall? Is there a possibility something got corrupted over the past month?

Oh yeah, the games that have problems are:

DF
All Valve games
Alien Shooter
Now Supreme Commander
Fallout 3 (Doesn't even try to load. It just crashes)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 12:20:35 am by Lost Requiem »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2010, 05:08:26 am »

I'm referring to the fact that my monitor is running off of the graphics card. Games like San Andreas and even Dragon Age don't experience the same problems unless the problem already happened, and with Diablo II, even if it is an archaic game, these things don't occur at all. After a few minutes, even, the problem will go away, and everything will begin to run smooth again, until I try to open up certain games.

If it is a failing graphics card, wouldn't the symptoms be happening ALL THE TIME instead of whenever I try to play a game? And even then, why is it affecting a 2D game like DF or not affecting Dragon Age at all? I looked around online, and none of the symptoms are conclusive with what I'm dealing with. I get optimum performance at first, but then it turns to shit after a few minutes, but only with certain games from varying time periods.

Generally, a graphics card that's beginning to fail will work fine aso long as it isn't being taxed. I had one about ten years ago that only failed on one or two games.

With the exception of DF, the games you list at having the problem are fairly GPU intensive. All of them Use a great deal of RAM. Is your card one of those that can take some of the load off the system memory? It could be one section of normally excess VRAM that's damaged and causing your issues.
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Volatar

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2010, 09:15:30 am »

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Sir Iryn

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2010, 01:50:13 pm »

Generally, a graphics card that's beginning to fail will work fine aso long as it isn't being taxed. I had one about ten years ago that only failed on one or two games.

Very true, I had an ATI Radeon 1900 xt die a slow heat death with similar symptoms. So far, I agree with the heat being the big issue, however, it still could be an issue relating to the malware that was on your pc. It's possible for malware to permanently damage your machine to the point where only a reinstall will fix it, even if your antivirus had cleaned it.

But lets just stick with the heat for now. You said your brother had a similar machine, could you perhaps borrow his card or remove yours and switch to an onboard card? If you can't, see if you're still under warranty and can get a replacement.
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Ayeohx

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2010, 06:08:36 pm »

Generally, a graphics card that's beginning to fail will work fine aso long as it isn't being taxed. I had one about ten years ago that only failed on one or two games.

You said your brother had a similar machine, could you perhaps borrow his card or remove yours and switch to an onboard card?

Excellent idea sir.  If the drivers do not fix the issue then swapping video cards would be a great next step.  After that... sledgehammer.
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Jay

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2010, 10:51:24 pm »

And it works fine. If it didn't, I wouldn't be able to use my computer at all.
This is the statement that makes me, as a computer technician at heart, hate people.

Just because it boots does not mean it's fine.
Those temperatures are not normal.  Thus that card is not working normally.
Why the hell is the temp so Armok-damn high? I'm not trying to render Crysis here. And why that would affect DF in the first place is beyond me.
Since you didn't hear or didn't care about what I said the first time, here's essentially the exact same thing I said three pages ago, in different words.

Computers can't deal with heat.
They don't want anything to do with it.
Thus, if their components start heating up beyond safe values, they will shut those components down to reduce the amount of heat produced.
This will cause things to run slower, naturally.

A failing graphics card, depending on the circumstances, can start generating obnoxious amounts of heat.  Of course, they can produce obnoxious amounts of heat to begin with.
My old 8800GT idled at 80C.  That's considered a normal temperature for that card, however.  It never topped 90C.  It's fine.
Your card is running at over 100C.  That is most certainly not normal, and probably dying.  You won't notice much difference in daily operation (the games you've listed that aren't having the problems are fairly new, they'll spread the "love" to multiple GPU cores, whereas DF can only use one), but if you keep pushing it so that it's shutting itself off (this slowdown issue is a result of throttling to keep the heat in check) you'll almost certainly damage the cores.
Not to say that they aren't damaged already.

Yes, I was talking about multiple cores in that paragraph.  Because any graphics card you can buy today has more than one.
In this case, given the circumstances you're describing, I'd say it's something in the card controller though, as it doesn't seem to be shutting off the cores when it should be.

...
If your graphics card is hitting 120C (we use Celsius in the computer world, for the record) something IS wrong with it.  No two ways about it.  They just don't get that hot before they shut off completely.
The hottest temperature I have ever seen in a computer was 100C, on my current processor, while I was stress-testing it (creating obnoxious amounts of heat intentionally), using an inadequate cooling system (not getting rid of the heat quickly enough).  In that instance, the "magic number" is 80C.  It will start slowing down my cores at that temperature as an attempt to keep the temperature down.

Lots of words, all of it information.  No tl;dr for you.
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Lost Requiem

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2010, 12:14:29 pm »

Just so I didn't confuse anything, I read through your post several times. I understand what's happening, and that I might have to get a new video card, but my question now is HOW did it happen and why is there huge amounts of heat on the card in PCwizard when the card itself doesn't feel that hot at all. Shouldn't it burn when I touch it?

I also have more news. Last night, my computer shut itself off to install the next windows update, and it bluescreened about a thousand times trying to reboot, sometimes even failing to reboot altogether. After about an hour and a half of watching it bluescreen again and again, it finally booted up successfully. For some reason, my computer has problems with booting up, but no problems arise after that. Just so I can skip more questions, I disabled all programs from starting (YIM, MSN, etc.) on startup.
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Sir Iryn

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2010, 01:51:23 pm »

Lost, two things.

It's probably a manufacturing defect, graphics cards should have a fairly long life tot hem. And you wont feel the heat unless you remove the heatsink as it's the GPU it's registering the heat from. DO NOT REMOVE THE HEATSINK. It'll burn a hole right through your card if you do.

Second, I'm really not sure your free of malware now, or any damage that it may have caused. BSODs can be caused by malware after a windows update has been applied.

However, I think were working with too many variables at once. I'd recommend reinstalling windows at this point. It should get rid of the blue screens, and it will eliminate it as a source of the problem. If it persists after that, then it is almost certainly a hard ware fault.

And it works fine. If it didn't, I wouldn't be able to use my computer at all.
This is the statement that makes me, as a computer technician at heart, hate people.

I know how you feel man, I'm a sysadmin myself. Remember though, you should never let the user know exactly what you think of them. :) You've got to be the cool headed one when everyone else is losing theirs, and above all, try to educate. Sorry if I sound a little preachy, but I've got to manage the helldesk technicians where I work in addition to all my other duties, and I've had a few go off on users in the past. Never a pretty sight.
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Mattasmack

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2010, 03:17:15 pm »

Well Jaybud said everything I wanted to, so I'll confine myself to saying "Hear, hear!"

But I do want to amplify my earlier suggestion that you might have a dust problem in the GPU's heatsink.  Depending on the design of the card, this is not something you'd be able to see just by looking at the card in the machine!  As evidence I submit these two photos of my old (overheating) graphics card:

This is how the card looked when I took it out of the machine -- perfectly normal, the fan spun easily, no sign of anything wrong.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But when I popped the cover off of the heatsink, this is what it looked like underneath -- completely choked with dust.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My point is, there was no way to tell without actually taking the card out of the machine and inspecting it.  The only evidence was that the graphics card was running hot to the point of rebooting the computer when I tried to play certain games.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 03:19:10 pm by Mattasmack »
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Lost Requiem

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2010, 07:00:09 pm »

Before I reinstall windows, I must know if this will affect any personal files on this or any other drive.
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Volatar

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2010, 07:52:56 pm »

Reinstalling Windows does not need to wipe the hard drive, but for our purposes we need it to. Please back up all your data off the main hard drive to your others, then unplug the others, and reinstall windows. Do NOT plug any of the other hard drives in (or any flash drives or anything) into the computer until we have figured out if the reinstall fixed anything. (best if you don't web surf also.) The purpose is to isolate and reveal the problem.
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Ayeohx

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Re: Unexplainable game/system slowdown
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2010, 08:30:42 pm »

Just so I didn't confuse anything, I read through your post several times. I understand what's happening, and that I might have to get a new video card, but my question now is HOW did it happen and why is there huge amounts of heat on the card in PCwizard when the card itself doesn't feel that hot at all. Shouldn't it burn when I touch it?

I also have more news. Last night, my computer shut itself off to install the next windows update, and it bluescreened about a thousand times trying to reboot, sometimes even failing to reboot altogether. After about an hour and a half of watching it bluescreen again and again, it finally booted up successfully. For some reason, my computer has problems with booting up, but no problems arise after that. Just so I can skip more questions, I disabled all programs from starting (YIM, MSN, etc.) on startup.

Lost, you're right.  It should burn to the touch.  Either PC Wizard is giving us BS data (not unheard of) or your heatsink isn't properly attached to your video card.  And you're sure that it's showing the heat for the 8400 GS right?  Not the integrated 6150?  Cause that's a whole 'nother mess of issues.

Do this for me, if you would.

You're video card's heatsink is probably held on by two plastic pins.  Can you make sure that those are in place?  While you're at it see if the heatsink is uneven on the card.  And this video card does have a fan right?  Some 8400 GSs didn't "need" fans.

As for bluescreening after an update that does reinforce the theory that the OS is hosed.  As Volatar suggested, back up EVERYTHING that's important to you before reinstalling.  You can lose all sorts of data.  Honestly, I would wipe the harddrive first (which will delete everything).  Format that sucker.  I personally hate dealing with clutter from the previous OS.

On second thought, I'd wait before reinstalling Windows.  You need to get your hardware issues squirt away.  Reinstalling an OS on a squirrelly system can lead to screwdom.  Oh yeah, tankers of screwdom.

Here's a fun idea!  Remove that 8400 GS and use the on board 6150.  Uninstall the Nvidia drivers, go to their site and download the drivers for the 6150.  See how Dwarf Fortress runs.  Seriously, best test.
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