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[Kot]

It isn't even uncommon, if you pay attention to the behaviors of masses of infantry. If it isn't an overhead attack, it'll probably bounce, or they'll cancel it before swinging.

Bullshit.
Cheat yourself to best stats, get an good armor and run into big group of enemies spamming ctrl+h without attacking them.
You will be fucking breakdancing.

[WealthyRadish]

That sounds funny, but I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The AI also bounces attacks or cancels them sometimes, that's all I'm saying. The player is more restricted, but if you imagine the AI with the same restrictions, battles would be a mess. This is just about the dumbest thing I can think of to have an argument about, and you seem very upset about it, so I'm going to leave it at that.

[Ozyton]

Well, surely you know about the conga lines that enemies make right now as they attack you while you backpedal. Currently if you block the person in front of you attacking, and the guy just behind him swings at you, their swing will go straight through their friend and hit you.

The Bannerlord blog posts suggests that the new AI will use spacing more effectively, which should make things much nicer.

[Rolan7]

The AI isn't very complicated, but the commander bit is something I thought most people are aware of. While bandits and the like won't have a leader, armies involving nobles will most often have a commander, who stands behind the other units and gives the orders to move them forward. It can sometimes be nice to leave them with the commander so they stay in that line while advancing (it's really easy to kill their cavalry's horses when they do this), but the main reason why I prefer having them charge in as soon as possible is to avoid them being grouped together when they reach your army. If they charge earlier, you'll get a steady trickle of enemies due speed/athletics differences, whereas if they're allowed to advance in the line they'll often end up with their ranged units in a good position and all the infantry attacking at once (while the cavalry flank, since they're usually on the edge of the line). Knocking out the commander also gives a morale hit to the enemy's army, making them more likely to retreat and panic.

I think you're right that taking out the commander breaks up the incredibly dumb "march forward in formation by stages"
But, that's hardly AI...  I still have only observed a binary thing:
1) Stand in a line and walk forwards, stop, walk forwards, stop, eventually charge
1a) If enough people or the commander die, skip to 2
2) just charge with individual targetting

And 1 is a godsend.  I'm like, "Oh good, they've decided to stand there and be cut down for a while."  It's usually a reward for facing a large force.  I park my men at the starting position and just murder a bunch of clueless morons.  Some of them do shift to face me, but they're forced to keep marching in the retarded formation.  And most of them keep facing away.  It's great, and it's also horrible.

[Bauglir]

If we're griping about AI cheats, I'm always frustrated by the way enemy lords seem to be able to conjure up swarms of well-trained forces at a moment's notice. It's worse in 1257 because of the sheer scale of everything, so that one of these lordswarms contains around 2000 men and will appear at the site of any conflict, no matter how many simultaneous wars the opponent seems to be engaged in, but even in Calradia it seems to render the possibility of war by attrition impossible. Couple that with the lack of ability to create alliances, and there's really not much strategy to the game - all you can really hope to do is slam numbers together and hope your tactical skill lets you win battles you shouldn't. Maybe that's the point but it's a bit of a let down.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Spoiler: :^) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I love stirring the pot btw

[Uristides]

If we're griping about AI cheats, I'm always frustrated by the way enemy lords seem to be able to conjure up swarms of well-trained forces at a moment's notice. It's worse in 1257 because of the sheer scale of everything, so that one of these lordswarms contains around 2000 men and will appear at the site of any conflict, no matter how many simultaneous wars the opponent seems to be engaged in, but even in Calradia it seems to render the possibility of war by attrition impossible. Couple that with the lack of ability to create alliances, and there's really not much strategy to the game - all you can really hope to do is slam numbers together and hope your tactical skill lets you win battles you shouldn't. Maybe that's the point but it's a bit of a let down.

This. You can raid, plunder and conquer every single holding of a kingdom but they'll still be able to pull(trained even) troops out of their asses as well as the money and supplies to mantain them. Hopefully Bannerlord will let you shut down enemies' economies, deplete their manpower pool and other neat stuff.

[Sindain]

*Snip*

This. You can raid, plunder and conquer every single holding of a kingdom but they'll still be able to pull(trained even) troops out of their asses as well as the money and supplies to mantain them. Hopefully Bannerlord will let you shut down enemies' economies, deplete their manpower pool and other neat stuff.

While it does get a bit ridiculous in certain mods the AI barely cheats in vanilla. With proper infrastructure it is entirely possible to raise armies much faster than the AI can. And it is certainly possible to grind enemy kingdoms down with attrition. After enough loses they suffer rather noticeable drops in the quality and sizes of their armies.

[lordcooper]

Yeah, I've currently beaten the silly Khanate fellas down to an average army size of about 30-40 each.

[scrdest]

Furthermore - it's not really mentioned anywhere visible, but AI lords' party size is determined by the number of their holdings (and type, I believe), in vanilla at least.

[Robsoie]

In the module system available on talesworld website, if you check the file module_script.py and look for

Code: [Select]

# script_party_get_ideal_size @used for NPC parties.
You'll find

Code: [Select]

  ("party_get_ideal_size",
    [
      (store_script_param_1, ":party_no"),

      #default limit is 30 for any party
      (assign, ":limit", 30),
     
      (try_begin),
        (party_slot_eq, ":party_no", slot_party_type, spt_kingdom_hero_party),
        (party_stack_get_troop_id, ":party_leader", ":party_no", 0),
        (store_faction_of_party, ":faction_id", ":party_no"),
     
        #default limit is 10 for kingdom lords
        (assign, ":limit", 10),

        #each (leadership level) gives 5 to limit
        (store_skill_level, ":skill", "skl_leadership", ":party_leader"),
        (store_attribute_level, ":charisma", ":party_leader", ca_charisma),
        (val_mul, ":skill", 5),
        (val_add, ":limit", ":skill"),

        #each (charisma level) gives 1 to limit     
        (val_add, ":limit", ":charisma"),

        #each (25 renown) gives 1 to limit
        (troop_get_slot, ":troop_renown", ":party_leader", slot_troop_renown),
        (store_div, ":renown_bonus", ":troop_renown", 25),
        (val_add, ":limit", ":renown_bonus"),

        #if this party is faction leader it takes additional 100 limit       
        (try_begin),
          (faction_slot_eq, ":faction_id", slot_faction_leader, ":party_leader"),
          (val_add, ":limit", 100),
        (try_end),

        #if this party is faction marshall it takes additional 20 limit       
        (try_begin),
          (faction_slot_eq, ":faction_id", slot_faction_marshall, ":party_leader"),
          (val_add, ":limit", 20),
        (try_end),       

        #party takes additional 20 limit per each castle it's party leader owns
        (try_for_range, ":cur_center", castles_begin, castles_end),
          (party_slot_eq, ":cur_center", slot_town_lord, ":party_leader"),
          (val_add, ":limit", 20),
        (try_end),       
      (try_end),

      #if player has level of 0 then ideal limit will be exactly same, if player has level of 80 then ideal limit will be multiplied by 2 ((80 + 80) / 80)
      #below code will increase limits a little as the game progresses and player gains level
      (store_character_level, ":level", "trp_player"),
      (val_min, ":level", 80),
      (store_add, ":level_factor", 80, ":level"),
      (val_mul, ":limit", ":level_factor"),
      (val_div, ":limit", 80),
      (assign, reg0, ":limit"),
  ]),

So in normal conditions you have :

#default limit is 10 for kingdom lords
#each (leadership level) gives 5 to limit
#each (charisma level) gives 1 to limit     
#each (25 renown) gives 1 to limit
#if this party is faction leader it takes additional 100 limit       
#if this party is faction marshall it takes additional 20 limit       
#party takes additional 20 limit per each castle it's party leader owns

And as game progress those limits increase along the player level

Code: [Select]

      #if player has level of 0 then ideal limit will be exactly same, if player has level of 80 then ideal limit will be multiplied by 2 ((80 + 80) / 80)
      #below code will increase limits a little as the game progresses and player gains level
      (store_character_level, ":level", "trp_player"),
      (val_min, ":level", 80),
      (store_add, ":level_factor", 80, ":level"),
      (val_mul, ":limit", ":level_factor"),
      (val_div, ":limit", 80),
      (assign, reg0, ":limit"),
Now that's for Native, mods may change many things regarding that, that may explain in some mods the giant blobs of troops you see when you're at their midgame.

I guess one of the problem with modding stuff so lords can get insane amount of troops is that lords that weren't lucky to get more and more renown (or were defeated and get back with mediocre army size) will have then much less armies and so will constantly running away from them , leading to a lack of battle after some time.
Especially as huge blob can move very very slowly , meaning smaller armies will never be caught by them.

[umiman]

If this hasn't been posted yet, here's a summary of all the features announced at Gamescom: http://www.pcinvasion.com/mount-blade-2-bannerlord-update-offers-a-lot-of-new-details

I like this:

The siege stuff is followed by a look at the improved Calradia world map. Taleworlds say castles will now properly integrate with neighbouring villages. Settlements can produce goods and build structures on four sides – one of which can be a castle. Villages with castles naturally offer more defenses, but miss out on a different economic building that could’ve been in the slot instead.

[Bauglir]

-snip-

That's interesting. I might play around with it and see what shenanigans are possible if I ever get time. What I'd like to see is having that limit decrease after a battle and slowly increase again over time; something to give a sense of consequence to a battle in which a thousand soldiers die and a ton of lords all lose their armies. Or maybe that requires them to visit each of their holdings to restore it (recruiting from all of them) or something, and looted villages don't count until they've recovered. As it stands they just ride back home and BLAMMO. Problem solved, status quo restored. You can raise armies faster, but it's a hassle to do, and that's punishment enough for getting your shit kicked in. If it upsets balance too much, maybe a factor that ties their maximum size to your army size in a way that drops off as they get back to full power, until a more thorough mod could adjust player recruitment strategies as well. So if you abuse the player's advantages, it speeds up your enemies' recovery.

1257 doesn't seem to stray too far, it's just that large nations have an obnoxious number of lords due to the scale of the map, so you get 20 or so groups of 100 men each tromping around. Especially ridiculous because they'll somehow be scattered all over the local area of the map after a battle, making escape impossible because now you're surrounded, even if they were all in a single cluster before you fought.

[Baffler]

Spoiler: :^) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I love stirring the pot btw

What in Ragnar's name did you just fucking say about me, you little Swadian? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class at the Sargoth Axe Throwing Academy, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Swadian lands, and I have over 300 confirmed rapes. I am trained in pillaging and I'm the top axe thrower in the King's shield-wall. You are nothing to me but another peasant. I will murder you with savagery the likes of which have never been seen before on Calradia, mark my fucking runes. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the internet? Think again, Swadian. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of Huscarls across Calradia and your fiefs are being scouted right now so you better prepare for the storm, peasant. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your kingdom. You're fucking dead, horse-user. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my beard. Not only am I extensively trained in facial combat, but I have access to the entire Nord armory and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off Calradia, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you coulnd't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit throwing weapons all over you and you will drown in them. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

[Ozyton]

You guys put so much effort into this it's amusing.