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[Ibid Straydrink]

Diplomacy is indeed an excellent mod, and probably the only reason (well, aside from PBOD and Freelancer) that I still play "Native" Warband at all. That said, as far as economics go, I can't help but feel that it's too still too spontaneous to be believable or enjoyable to play as a merchant. The problem, I think, has a bit to do with the fact that the production centers of too many of the vanilla game's luxury/specialty resources are spread quite evenly over all Calradia. Looking for wool? Try the Rhodok highlands. Or the Vaegir tundras. Or the Khergit Steppes! Or the Sarran Desert! Or Swadia!

Making the problem worse, there is the small fact that the profit turned from buying and selling goods is trivial compared to what you can get for joining a faction and raiding enemy caravans with impunity, or even just pawning old bandit gear. Given, playstyle in an open world is largely a matter of self-discipline and personal interest, but it's nice to have the structure...

It's my opinion that the penalty for buying and selling should be edited for certain goods, so that most gear sells for a fraction of what it did (because honestly, what merchant concerned for his reputation among mercenaries and Lords actually purchases a stock of bent arrows and rusty chainmail with a gaping holes?), or better yet-  lower the general quality and value of most gear to be found. Following that, production centers need to be rebalanced so that certain luxuries and staples are more exclusively confined to certain regions, and those silly little stick-wielding children called bandits should be sufficiently buffed to muster up some courage and start, you know, attacking caravans, to discourage the wantonly free distribution of goods that you always see. With that done, a couple of simple tweaks to the costs of Productive Enterprises, which in my opinion should be a far greater source of income than peasants' rent and selling used undergarments, and the world will be ripe for a merchant empire.

[Zangi]

Now if only someone did make a mod for that, compatible with the other vanilla+ mods like diplomacy... but I havn't looked for a few years now.

[puke]

Yeah, I see what you mean about the production centers.  Are there any mods that tweak that?  I might try one with a custom map and different setting if it did a good job with the economics and trade.

[Zangi]

So, I've been playing both Prophecy of Pendor and Floris Mod Extended+Reworked Troop Trees...  Up to before I can conquer/acquire a castle/town myself.

Different beasts PoP and Floris.

Convenience: Floris has so much of the little stuff put in that adds up.  While PoP, only recently added in the talk to Guild Master button.
Tournament: Floris has an arena style tournament, based on points gained during the match, instead of the Native style tournament.  I lurve it, especially comparing it to Native.
Trade: Actually, I personally don't play the trading game.  I think there is a food supply thing in case you want to starve out a castle/town in a siege.  It takes time to replenish that.  Forgot which one has it...
Floris: Has a setting where there is actual supply and demand, for the town workshop investments and land ownership/rentals.  You can pick up a Merchant's Ledger, I assume you can use it to record pricing of goods after you spend the time to look at price of goods in town markets.   I figure price fluctuates much more in Floris if you have the High/Medium setting for economics.  I don't know about regional productions though, which for Native, is basically the same for all areas.
PoP: Spam either Tanning or the one with the fancy Dyeworks for investments...
Troop Variety: Well, I personally think PoP wins out.  As for Floris, it can probably be assumed that you will get different games between Expanded and Reworked troop trees.
Floris - Expanded Troops: Personally, I think this is pretty much a mess and seems unbalanced from my vantage point, cavalry is kingly.  The high tier faction troops seem much less unique.  Like the Swadians and Sarrinads both having top tier heavy cavalry, even the Khergits/Vaegir have comparable heavy cavalry.  Sarrinads also share top tier horse archers with the Khergits...  At the least, when it comes to top tier foot troops of the Rhoduks and Nords, they are still unique.  (I think the Khergits got shafted.)
There are 7 tiers of troops, so it takes AI Lords some time to build back up a competent force, if they don't just go out and get beaten again, which can lend to AI kingdom avalanches.  Lords beaten lose all troops and then have to gather troops and slowly train them back up.  Lord that won the battle keeps high tier troops and gains more high tier too.  (Swadians and Khergits down to 1 city, Nords overrun the world.)
Floris - Reworked Troops: I like this much more, faction troop trees are much more simple, but the highest tier is 6.  Only faction troops can be tier 6, while mercs are up to tier 5.  Plus, the high tier troops are much more specialized/unique to each faction.  For example: Sarrinad's one top tier is now heavy infantry instead of heavy cavalry+horse archer.
PoP - Troops - Variety is the spice of life... there are so many different factions and sub-factions, each with their own sets of troops.  Even the bandits have been beefed up with their own upgrade trees. Each kingdom faction has a separate Commoner troop tree, Noble troop tree and a Knight Order.  Except for the fact that Cavalry is pretty much the most prevalent top tier troop type... of the Nobles and most of the Knight Orders.
Brytanwelda: Really, the only Mod I know that is not cavalry heavy... and combat is predominately toward spear/polearm and throwing.  (Because I can.)
Atmosphere: PoP, the world feels much more alive...  More bandits/neutrals roaming around to fight.  Unique non-faction armies roaming about, similar to how native does it, but in one single large army instead of multiple groups.  Quests and random stuff caused by non-factions.  Sacking of towns by non-faction armies.  Talking to NPCs, you can pick up rumors of stuff happening in the world.  Different rumors based on relations/honor of your character. 
It also helps that there is an overarching story behind the world of PoP.  An established history to it.  I hear it is like the 3rd 'book' or something.


Meh, wrote this up, just cause.  I could probably elaborate more, but meh, you'd have to ask for something more specific.

[Ibid Straydrink]

I constantly find myself torn between PoP and Native w/ Diplo-Freelancer. Floris has never really appealed to me to be honest, partly because it seemed to me as though all the said nifty little features felt cluttered, and partly because my computer refuses to run it.

On the topic, I recently spent my weekend tweaking my Diplo-Freelancer module to bring troop and bandit proficiencies and skills in line with those in Pendor... the result is a sort of "Calradia Intermediate," wherein 3x the normal troop expenses and more capable adversaries and allies keep you working for reputation and make most quest rewards quite meaningful through-and-through, but provide plenty of challenges to suit an upstart mercenary and his band of a dozen or so stalwart men.

Alas, while I'm incline to say that it's more fun to play, it certainly lacks the flavor of PoP...

[umiman]

Zangi: I agree too.

While Pendor has a nicer story and all that, Floris just has so much more stuff in it. The sieges are better, you have better AI and formations and things like that. You have more features such as auto-companion management and looting. Auto selling and buying is a godsend. They all add up to make it just so much more compelling than the relatively feature poor Pendor.

Just trying to manage food in Pendor makes me want to shoot someone.

[Robsoie]

After watching this video about the incoming 2.0 version of that mod mod :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70-Yn3CFwdo

I can only recommend to give some attention to this sengoku-era mod for Warband, "Gekokujo" :
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,249816.0.html

It's released !

There are a few rough edges that the author is fixing for the next version, but it's really a great mod so far.

[SalmonGod]

After watching this video about the incoming 2.0 version of that mod mod :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70-Yn3CFwdo

I can only recommend to give some attention to this sengoku-era mod for Warband, "Gekokujo" :
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,249816.0.html

It's released !

There are a few rough edges that the author is fixing for the next version, but it's really a great mod so far.

Wow!  I played that mod for a bit several months ago, and it is looking vastly improved from what it was back then.

[Zangi]

After watching this video about the incoming 2.0 version of that mod mod :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70-Yn3CFwdo

I can only recommend to give some attention to this sengoku-era mod for Warband, "Gekokujo" :
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,249816.0.html

It's released !

There are a few rough edges that the author is fixing for the next version, but it's really a great mod so far.

Wow!  I played that mod for a bit several months ago, and it is looking vastly improved from what it was back then.

Its still a work in progress from the looks of it.  About an hours play into it now.  I have not seen a single shield in any shop in the 'north'.  Have not faced off against any lord armies yet...

Spoiler: Initial Assessment(You can ignore this, it is still alpha/beta) (click to show/hide)

Throwing is garbage, I've only seen weak knives so far.  Archery and Firearms are likely to be king at field battles, cause no shields.  Offensive sieges are going to be a hurdle too if there is going to be a lot of distance to walk.
Companions, they start off pretty competent...
Factions, lots of em, so far, they seem to be carbon copies with same name.

Yea, it is definitely still in alpha/beta.  The 'Release Candidate 2.0' probably means Alpha or Beta 2.0...  So I'll leave it at that, at least it is something to watch for.

[Neonivek]

Only faction troops can be tier 6, while mercs are up to tier 5

Who do these games hate mercenary troops? I am aware that their major advantage is that they don't suffer morale penalty...

I'd love to capture a bandit, woo him to my side, then train him until he turns into a tier 6 bandit type class.

[Zangi]

Only faction troops can be tier 6, while mercs are up to tier 5

Who do these games hate mercenary troops? I am aware that their major advantage is that they don't suffer morale penalty...

I'd love to capture a bandit, woo him to my side, then train him until he turns into a tier 6 bandit type class.

Much easier to randomly pick up top tier mercs at taverns I wager... but, I recall that mercs also cost more upkeep then faction troops...  or maybe it was just the cavalry.  Meh.
It really doesn't matter once you get yourself and a bunch of companions high enough level with training.  Levels breeze upwards.

Spoiler: /rant (click to show/hide)

 Also, screw the top(6th) tier Swadian cavalry, the bastards are always a pain in my side.  To a lesser extent, the 5th tier cavalry...
Plow through my people and my Nord allies like nothing.  And surviving a heck of a long time because of their armor.
I know, it is my own failing, I need more siege crossbow troops in my line up.  Cause nothing says screw your heavy armor better then a steel bolt in the face.

[Ibid Straydrink]

Only faction troops can be tier 6, while mercs are up to tier 5

Who do these games hate mercenary troops? I am aware that their major advantage is that they don't suffer morale penalty...

I'd love to capture a bandit, woo him to my side, then train him until he turns into a tier 6 bandit type class.

I used to Morgh's Tool to give bandits tier 3 advancement options; Steppes Bandits become Horsemen, Forest Bandits become Footman/Crossbowmen, etc. There's gold in them brigands!

Only faction troops can be tier 6, while mercs are up to tier 5

Who do these games hate mercenary troops? I am aware that their major advantage is that they don't suffer morale penalty...

I'd love to capture a bandit, woo him to my side, then train him until he turns into a tier 6 bandit type class.

Much easier to randomly pick up top tier mercs at taverns I wager... but, I recall that mercs also cost more upkeep then faction troops...  or maybe it was just the cavalry.  Meh.
It really doesn't matter once you get yourself and a bunch of companions high enough level with training.  Levels breeze upwards.

Spoiler: /rant (click to show/hide)

 Also, screw the top(6th) tier Swadian cavalry, the bastards are always a pain in my side.  To a lesser extent, the 5th tier cavalry...
Plow through my people and my Nord allies like nothing.  And surviving a heck of a long time because of their armor.
I know, it is my own failing, I need more siege crossbow troops in my line up.  Cause nothing says screw your heavy armor better then a steel bolt in the face.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Enter, Khergit raiding party with Vaegir Marksmen on a hill for support. Swadians move much slow lyon horseback than most Khergit troops from the third tier up, and tend to have trouble getting their charge/lance tactics straight. Engage them on flat terrain to take advantage of their weakness, preferably by drawing them off with a squad of ridiers while your archers take pot-shots.

[Zangi]

Hmm... for clarification: Talking about Floris mod, reworked troop trees.

Oh, I'm not afraid of the charges really.  My current playstyle is to stick to my army or with the army of my allies.  My army and I currently have problems bringing down freaking tanks at this time, most of their kills/damage is done swinging swords while they slowly wade through my troops/Nord allies.

@Diplomacy submod, High/Experimental Economics:
Price of goods fluctuates based on availability and investments like Dyeworks are now actually beholden to the available supply in the city.
I bought up Dyeworks in a buncha towns up around Khergit/Sarrinad territory...  it shows green/profit of +400.  Almost every pay day so far, I lose 400-600 per dyeworks in that whole area.  Still in the green when I show up to check it out between paydays.

Also, another case of avalanching going on, somehow.  I beat back a Swadian siege earlier, Swadians came back while I was gone, like nothing happened and just literally rolled over around 6 Nord lords and successfully resieged the town I defended.  Nords have been losing more battles then they have been winning throughout the wars... or maybe the NPC battle balance shifts away from favoring Nords in the Floris reworked trees?  *Shrug*
I don't get it sometimes, I remember Nords rolling over Swadian troops in field battles too.... maybe that was from the expanded troop tree version... I should pay more attention to troop composition.

In sieges, T4/5/6 Swadian cavalry are really the only things to watch out for, since they are both meat shields and heavy hitters.  T5 Swadian archers may also be a concern, not as big of one though.  Everything else melts appropriately to my not so elite T4/T5 mercs.

[Robsoie]

Gekokujo got upgraded to version 2.1 then version 2.1a
Fixing a lot of the reported problems and improving performance apparently, i have not tried yet, but on the thread the changelog is rather big.


There's a 3.61 patch incoming for Prophesy of Pendor.
My current Fierdsvain themed campaign was going so well, until we seized Poinsbruk in the Ravenstern territory and i asked my friendly lords to support my claim into it, and finally obtained ownership on the city.
Problem is that i forgot that the area around is one in which Mystmountain, Jatu (and even Wolfbode in that specific game) huge armies are sometime spawning.
After getting troop in garrison there, i had my town sacked while i was away , it destroyed nearly all my precious gathered troops inside, and was then an easy pick for the Ravenstern lords that rushed to siege it, while i was the whole continent away.

I decided to not go siege it back, not worth the trouble considering all the +1000 minor factions armies roaming there and ready to sack it again at anytime.

Apparently the patch will tone down the frequency of those minor factions sieges, but still avoiding the area is a good idea as there are a lot of those minor factions spawning around, and losing good troops to a city pillage before being able to reach it to help defend is not that fun

[DarkerDark]

I found out there's a Diplomacy compilation mod that allows for buddies to jump into your battles via multiplayer. I've been having a lot of fun playing out my campaign and having my brothers jump in as the two companions in my party, Borcha and Bashetur. It's a little imbalanced in favor of the players, because instead of one uber-killing machine running about the battlefield, you potentially have a whole party of them. But really, that just means I don't run away from a lot of battles now.