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[Krelian]

ok, I have kinda a big "problem" (more like, having to choose betwen two good things)


I have been playing with a warband mod called "native expansion". it is very good on it own right, but nothing too spectacular.

Then another mod got my atention. Its called sword of damocles, which list of features is astounding. I got really into it just by reading the features.

THEN at the end of reading and drowling about it, I read the line that says its only for "vanilla M&B".

My question is... what do you think, is going back to vanilla m&b being a big step down? Like, graphic wise, or engine related, etc... ? Im not sure if the changes for vanilla to warband where only content, or it was something more deep.

BTW, multiplayer is not something that interest me, so that part of warband is not a factor for me.

[612DwarfAvenue]

Pfft... Vaegirs.

About as intimidating as an old lady rowing a boat across a 10ft. tall waterfall.

When it's over a thousand goddamn soldiers versus my 84 soldiers, i kind of take notice.


And Krelian, it's up to you, just keep in mind M&B has worse animations, and lacks some features of Warband. Graphically it shouldn't really be any different, it's the same engine and everything. All in all it shouldn't be anything major, but then again it's been years since i played the original M&B, so i don't really know what's missing in it.

[olemars]

ok, I have kinda a big "problem" (more like, having to choose betwen two good things)


I have been playing with a warband mod called "native expansion". it is very good on it own right, but nothing too spectacular.

Then another mod got my atention. Its called sword of damocles, which list of features is astounding. I got really into it just by reading the features.

THEN at the end of reading and drowling about it, I read the line that says its only for "vanilla M&B".

My question is... what do you think, is going back to vanilla m&b being a big step down? Like, graphic wise, or engine related, etc... ? Im not sure if the changes for vanilla to warband where only content, or it was something more deep.

BTW, multiplayer is not something that interest me, so that part of warband is not a factor for me.

They're making a SoD version for Warband as well, with an even bigger feature list. The pre-release is a little different from the original though, with a very different map. I think I liked the premise of the original better, where you're an exiled lord who have to build up your kingdom again in new lands. I don't think the backstory for the new version is ready yet though.

[612DwarfAvenue]

ok, I have kinda a big "problem" (more like, having to choose betwen two good things)


I have been playing with a warband mod called "native expansion". it is very good on it own right, but nothing too spectacular.

Then another mod got my atention. Its called sword of damocles, which list of features is astounding. I got really into it just by reading the features.

THEN at the end of reading and drowling about it, I read the line that says its only for "vanilla M&B".

My question is... what do you think, is going back to vanilla m&b being a big step down? Like, graphic wise, or engine related, etc... ? Im not sure if the changes for vanilla to warband where only content, or it was something more deep.

BTW, multiplayer is not something that interest me, so that part of warband is not a factor for me.

They're making a SoD version for Warband as well, with an even bigger feature list. The pre-release is a little different from the original though, with a very different map. I think I liked the premise of the original better, where you're an exiled lord who have to build up your kingdom again in new lands. I don't think the backstory for the new version is ready yet though.

Oh damn, when i get bored of my Native Expansion character i may have to download this next.

[Krelian]

They're making a SoD version for Warband as well, with an even bigger feature list. The pre-release is a little different from the original though, with a very different map. I think I liked the premise of the original better, where you're an exiled lord who have to build up your kingdom again in new lands. I don't think the backstory for the new version is ready yet though.

wow thanks for the tip !
Im going to read the warband SoD features, then take a choice.

Oh damn, when i get bored of my Native Expansion character i may have to download this next.

you too playing native expansion? did you already had the black army invade? In my game they got like 1/3 of the world, but now they have lost all but 1 town. All their lords have almost no troops, except the Lady Larkin who has like 650 troops plus about 800 prisoners. LOL
And is a feature of the mod, or of warband the making your companion lords? I made 3 companion lord, but then Xerina backstabed me !!
And I have turned 3 lord to my faction, but they seem to hate me for some reason. They all have fiefs and all. The advisor tell me treachery is inminent :S. Thats warband or also the native expansion mod?

[612DwarfAvenue]

Not yet, i've got it on the default 250 days or whatever, and i've only done roughly 120-130, something like that.

Also, here's the Wiki. http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Mount_and_Blade_Wiki should help you figure out what's in Warband, and what's in NE .

[Krelian]

actually its in 150 days so you are almost right there :p

[612DwarfAvenue]

Oh shit.

[Krelian]

From your link:

From vanilla to warband.

Bandits Camp
-> After the first few levels, I basically ignore these. I wont be missing them.

Updated textures and graphics.
New character movement and swordplay animations.
-> Ouch

New character horseback swordplay mechanics--added the ability to change the side of a held slash.
-> Actually I hate that, I have hard time hiting people with swords on a horse now, the sword moves nonstop :p

New character fighting mechanics and animations--added the ability to kick.
-> Nice but I rarely use it. Most of the time I get a free slash on my chest from trying it.

Added a new couched lance mechanic, most importantly being time-limited couches.
-> In vanilla it was super easy to couch, now it is hard. But I think it is for the best, as a balancing measure.

Added automatic shield blocking of some missles even when shield is not explicitly held up.
-> This means in vanilla arrows can ignore my shield if not actively using it? I love how sometimes arrows hit it when on my side, or even on my back. In fact I sometimes wear two shields, so I have one in the back all times. In vanilla this doesnt work?

Added chambered parrying--attacking at the right time in the right direction will parry an incoming attack and deliver an attack.
-> Never noticed it.

Horses now have a linear physical presence that makes it impossible to turn on the spot if objects are in the way. To compensate, horsemen AI is greatly improved.
-> I noticed it, and I like it, for realism.

Balanced parties (the bigger your party, the bigger the parties of roaming bandits become).
Command and found your own kingdom, recruit lords from companions and other factions, and take over Calradia.
Prisoner ransom is now differentiated. Skilled prisoner will price more, while brigands and recruits price less.(Gallary slave marchant will buy them for same price of 50 denars regardless of rank)
-> All this is overruled by the mod so it wont matter.

Buy Land for a productive enterprise: talk to a guildmaster to set up a business that produces goods from raw materials, eg. a bakery to make bread from grain.
-> I liked it, but its kinda broken. Easy money, for me at least.

Multiplayer
-> I dont use it.

Marriage
-> I wont miss this.

Sarranid Sultanate
-> The mod adds even more so...

Your own kingdom
-> Also added by the mod.

[Sordid]

Horses now have a linear physical presence that makes it impossible to turn on the spot if objects are in the way. To compensate, horsemen AI is greatly improved.
-> I noticed it, and I like it, for realism.

It's a change, but I'm not sure I'd call it an improvement as such. Even a single guy standing next to a horse is enough to prevent that horse from turning around, which is just blatantly false. I can tell you from experience that if a horse wants badly enough to go where you're standing, it is going to go there and there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

[612DwarfAvenue]

Added chambered parrying--attacking at the right time in the right direction will parry an incoming attack and deliver an attack.
-> Never noticed it.

Yeah, i think it happens when you attack at the right time in the same direction (rather, if he's slashing to the left, you slash to the right, so your weapons meet).


And now that i think about it, if the Black Army shows up in Vaegir territory, it would certainly distract them, hopefully keeping them from attacking Jelbegi for a while.

[Thexor]

Horses now have a linear physical presence that makes it impossible to turn on the spot if objects are in the way. To compensate, horsemen AI is greatly improved.
-> I noticed it, and I like it, for realism.

It's a change, but I'm not sure I'd call it an improvement as such. Even a single guy standing next to a horse is enough to prevent that horse from turning around, which is just blatantly false. I can tell you from experience that if a horse wants badly enough to go where you're standing, it is going to go there.

More importantly, any claim that "the horsemen AI is greatly improved" is either blatantly wrong, or else indicates that the original AI was so horribly dreadful as to make walking a superior option. Seriously, if you find yourself on foot in a tournament facing a cavalry opponent, just stand near a wall and wait for the enemy to collide with it. 'Suicide by stupidity' is the leading cause of death among mounted troops. 

[Robsoie]

Yes can't agree more, i don't know how it was in the original M&B but in Warband while the ground soldier AI is acceptable in battle and tourney, the horseman AI is simply ridiculous.


The problem show even more in tournament, in which the walls are closer than in battle map, the horsemen (even mounted archers) will always find themselves stuck in a wall, letting you to easily kill them without any kind of challenge.
If they couldn't code a decent horseman AI, they should have removed horses from tournament, they're death trap for the AI.

And even in those larger battle map, it's not rare to see a bunch of horsemen running up to the "invisible walls" and staying stuck there, while trying to kill each other.

[Thexor]

Yes can't agree more, i don't know how it was in the original M&B but in Warband while the ground soldier AI is acceptable in battle and tourney, the horseman AI is simply ridiculous.


The problem show even more in tournament, in which the walls are closer than in battle map, the horsemen (even mounted archers) will always find themselves stuck in a wall, letting you to easily kill them without any kind of challenge.
If they couldn't code a decent horseman AI, they should have removed horses from tournament, they're death trap for the AI.

And even in those larger battle map, it's not rare to see a bunch of horsemen running up to the "invisible walls" and staying stuck there, while trying to kill each other.

Oh yeah, those invisible walls. Nothing like running down fleeing opponents, then having your horse stop dead on a solid wall of air while the target you were three steps away from fades from view while running in place. 

[Grakelin]

Even though they're stupid, AI cavalry is still tougher on their horses than off. When on your team (except for people like Nizar, who sprint ahead and get killed), their accidental formation will smash the flank of an organized army or tear a bandit army to pieces better than the infantry will. On the other hand, when the enemy has cavalry, they will do the same thing unless you have a hill you can camp on (I usually end up ordering my men to camp hills, because the AI never thinks of not charging, though they will occassionally build a huge horizontal line for me to play couched lance with). On flat maps, I charge their cavalry division with a counched lance to keep them from getting this advantage. One of my favourite things to do is find the Lord and couch him at the very beginning, because they never think you're actually going to do it, so they don't block.

One thing that has been annoying me lately, which I had almost forgotten about, was being on the attacking team in a siege. Your allies will never tell their archers to hold on the ground, so the idiots stand in the ladder to shoot and block your path. Then, if you do get on the ladder, the crush of allied soldiers just pushes you off again. When you get up on the wall, nobody ever thinks to flank the enemy. They just do a straight push. I usually get riddled with arrows when I climb the stairs behind the enemy, but I get 30-40 kills out of it anyway.