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Author Topic: Ghosts (and the paranormal)  (Read 4902 times)

MrWiggles

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 06:30:59 pm »

Quote
If there is no proof something exists it's simplest to believe it doesn't exist.
Kind of disappointments me though that the semi-authentic/plausible bits, like the EM anomalies, don't have any authentic investigations largely because of this.

Well, they don't have any now. They had had extensive research, several major universities had studies for ghosts, and other woo. And after about a hundred years, all that grant money, all those man hours, all those calories burned away thinking and trying to test this problem they have come up with nothing.

There is only, only one scientific field that is stagnate from its inception to contemporary times, and that is parapsychology.

And EM fields cant do most of what ghost have been purported to due. I did research into the subject, after reading about every sciency ghost hunter, and papers from goggle scholar and doing research in the capability of the EM field.

I have been watching quite a bit of "Ghost Adventures" lately and, unless they are doctoring their film, it seems pretty hard to explain away some of the stuff they witness at the locations.  Go watch several of those episodes and then tell me that there isn't at least a part of you that believes in it.  Some very freaky stuff.

If they had anything concert, then they wouldn't have a show on the travel channel, (totally noted academic television channel, don't cha know?  ;) ), but gaining notary with their nobel prize in one of possibly dozen fields. It would be a world changing discovering, academically, and civically. Ghost can testify at their own trials, possibly no more will issues. To many changes to really list.

Beyond this, though your argument is that because you can't explain it, it is therefore a ghost?

Or in its basic term, because you can't explain it, you can explain it. <- This is contradictory.

In these term, you can interject anything as the explantion for the unexplained thing. You can say mutated lab hamsters, or vampriric goats, or small Jewish golems. They all have equal explanatory weight.


A lot of ghost stuff ancetotal tales are impossible to explain way, as we don't have all the details. We don't know what been omitted, we don't know whats been changed. We don't know the numerous other minute details that may help with an explanations. And if we couple this with how our brain readily tricks us in what it thinks its perceiving, on how malleable out memory is then anecdotal evidence becomes even weaker.

This isn't to say those that spout out experiences with ghosties, are lying. They probably aren't. They aren't telling willful untruths, and as odd as this may sound can probably pass a polygraph test. All it means, that they believe it happen to them. That however, doesn't mean that it did.

And some one inability to explain what happen to you, isn't proof that it indeed happen. There isn't enough information to make a creditable determination into the validity of the claimant.

We can however, still say that it probably wasn't a ghost, since ghost arent proven to exist. As none existent things, cannot cause events.

As shocking as this sounds, I think ghost are bunk. http://mrwigggles.livejournal.com/  Bottom entry.
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Nivim

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 06:40:51 pm »

Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it. I've just been in a hospital recently. Ghosts aren't really the first thing to come to mind when visiting a sick friend, but there's a really odd, creepy feeling inside. The food, maternity, and waiting areas aren't so bad. But the corridors from the ambulance to the emergency rooms are creepy, as well as certain emergency wards. I'm a little surprised to find out that everyone's feeling the same way near the same areas of that hospital.
That's only a valid test if everyone getting the feeling has no idea what those corridors and rooms are used for. If you send someone into a large empty building and tell the to "spiritually" find where deaths where, they are just as likely to find the lunchroom as the emergency room. Also note that when you try and do such a test without knowledge, you will be semi-subconsciously straining to find every little bit of evidence that might tell you.

If you have an explanation why, by all means say so. It could be that the very belief of ghosts makes you more susceptible to "possession". I mean, heck, typing this alone at 1.30 AM gives me an odd feeling that something's about to possess me suddenly. Could that explain ghosts jumping from one person to another, or group possessions? Regardless of culture, we all felt some odd, instinctive fear from playing Silent Hill.
I find this funny (entertaining), because you are talking about an inherently insubstantial being; they have no energy stores, no body, no brain. This means that you are incredibly more powerful than they are. Such a being could only possess you if you wanted it to happen badly, or you were absolutely sure it would happen.

 In my opinion, the brain is an amazing, wonderful, and horrifically flawed contraption. It evolved to deal with stimuli in a complex way that did not get it killed; this is very broad. There are all kinds of errors and failures they will perpetuate themselves and get worse until the ones involved die because of it.
 People seem to have this standing belief that they always know what is going on in their own mind. In reality, you could know what might be going on a handful of times in your life. There is a saying in psychology that "If our brains were simple enough for us to understand, our brains we be so simple would couldn't understand them." (~ Lyall Watson [!= mind you]) What this all means is that your perceptions are highly fallible, especially in regards to reduced or uncertain stimuli. Ghosts and demons really could be ghosts and demons; machinations of your subconscious that represent things you feel or think in some way. You feelings about a person who died could come together into synthetic stimuli, your feelings about death in some place can do the same. When you know there is something wrong with you in relation to society, that feeling could manifest as some imp that follows you everywhere.

 I think I just used a club instead of a dagger; this post's point is spread around, but it's very solid.

Proto-Edit: Mr. Wiggles "ninja'd" me. Oh well.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2010, 06:45:52 pm »

Sorry Nivm.

But getting more then one poster to hit one the same points, make this side of the debate more credible.
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Nivim

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2010, 07:16:21 pm »

 It's alright. Thank you for the bit that led me to how energy can travel through the air. I had wondered about that.
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Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

MrWiggles

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2010, 07:25:10 pm »

It's alright. Thank you for the bit that led me to how energy can travel through the air. I had wondered about that.

Someone read my wall o text! 8>

If you want to look at something cool, then I suggest reading on lighting guns. They can't really be aimed, but by god don't stand in front of it!
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Morrigi

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2010, 07:49:17 pm »

I read it too, good job. I would never be able to sit down and write something like that without it being part of schoolwork or the like.
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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2010, 08:39:08 pm »

Just reading this stuff makes me feel uneasy, paranoid and makes my eyes water.
But thats just my lively imagination.
Indeed.

I kind of loosely believe that ghosts exist. Even if they do, I'm fairly certain that no place I've ever lived in has been haunted. Knock on wood.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2010, 08:49:04 pm »

I read it too, good job. I would never be able to sit down and write something like that without it being part of schoolwork or the like.

I had a lot of fun doing the research for that bit of editorial. In the few months I learned that when ever a new camera was introduced to the public, a slew of new ghost pictures emerged. During the 1970, when Kodak introduced flash photography for general use, that when you start getting orb pictures. Right now, the latest ghost are the energy streams or whips.

These are caused by digital camera doing a procedure that mimick longer exposure rate, so any light sources get smeared across the image. Really easy to replicate. 
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Rilder

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2010, 08:58:24 pm »

A lot of people in my life have had paranormal experiences, I haven't so far (Except thinking I could talk to the dead using dowsing when I was a kid.)

I can't rule it out but I can't say yes with certainty.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2010, 09:03:50 pm »

A lot of people in my life have had paranormal experiences, I haven't so far (Except thinking I could talk to the dead using dowsing when I was a kid.)

I can't rule it out but I can't say yes with certainty.

oO

You do know that dowsing, or pendulums, that board with the name I cant spell, is just simple the ideomotor effect, and reading into it.

Also, I also found it funny when someone tries to use one unproven method to show evedence for something else unproven to exist. Like using psychics to talk to ghost.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2010, 09:04:52 pm »

Ouija boards is what you're thinking of.  I talk to people through those sometimes.
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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2010, 09:10:39 pm »

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Rilder

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2010, 09:13:17 pm »

I lost my pendulum, was fun though.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2010, 09:15:21 pm »

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Ouija boards is what you're thinking of.  I talk to people through those sometimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

A great test for the Ouija board is to get you blinded, spun, then the board is miss angled and let you have it.

Gibberish, one hundred percent of the time.

And the ideomotor effect can obey desires, so that completly expected for peldlums.
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SHAD0Wdump

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Re: Ghosts (and the paranormal)
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2010, 09:20:38 pm »

Once last year, while in bed, I found I was awakened, at first it felt simply like I was having trouble sleeping, but I slow started feeling more and more uncomfortable, eventually I was practically paralyzed and a rush of voices went by me.

Couldn't understand a word. The tone wasn't quite angry, sad, urgent, but rather quite emotionless. Or perhaps my ability to judge tone was impaired by my freight.
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