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[BlazingDav]

Not sure the effect type should have though, sure terrifying would attract necromancers to grow their horde of minions (ironically sounds quite a useful magic for a fort with lots of hauling...), but wouldn't it also attract your 'holy' mages that smite the undead and give you a nice source of bone bolts.

[Wiiking]

An interesting thought. And it makes sense. a lot. But what about in adventurer mode? Imo you should be able to be a wizard there. You could fully customize it's style and personality and train him to be w/e you want. I'd definitely be a necromancer, my favorite kind of wizard since Diablo II :3

[nenjin]

Sadly my reply is "Well, that's adventure mode." In a perfect world they could get dev'd in tandom. If wrestling is an indication though...there will probably be some significant differences.

Text bomb.

;tldr: I put on my Wizard's hat and robe.

This is all purely late-night brainstorming from me, but here's some ideas. I fully expect those who actually read them to tear some apart.

Wizard spells, spell capacity, and Wizard Generation

A Wizard's capacity to learn spells is represented as a pool. Spell "level" subtracts from this pool. For every two levels of Wizardry, a Wizard gains x points in this pool, representing their ability to learn more. The initial size of the pool, the amount of each increase and the maximum size of the pool would be a function of personality traits. (And maybe spell book quality.)

Brand new Wizards start with one Cantrip (a level 1 spell.) Wizards that immigrate to your fortress that have experience will come knowing more than this.

*-indicates a spell that might be castable in reverse at higher levels
+-indicates a spell that involves something likely to change in an update

Process for a new Wizard
Step 1: Generate personality, and what personality means to a Wizard

(Way too complex to sort out now)

Step 2: Craft Spellbook
Based on their material preferences. A Wizard that cannot craft their spellbook will alternate between casting cantrips while "helping out" and doing nothing, and will regularly get an unhappy thought. A Wizard may not learn any new spells until they craft a spellbook (although they still eke out some experience from casting their cantrip.)

Step 3: Grant one cantrip randomly/affected by personality. 

3a- Cantrips
Magic Arrow - [insert generic ranged "magic attack" here]
Create food - 1 unit to based on skill, of a food the wizard prefers.
Create Booze - 1 unit to based on skill, of a the booze the wizard prefers.
Minor Telekinesis - encumbrance limit based on magic skill level
Magic Armor - Provides total body protection at the level of full leather.
Sleep (That is...make someone else sleep ) Duration based on skill.
Summon minor familiar - Bumps the Wizard's skill level by one while alive. Eats as normal. Does not poop. Behaves as the wizard's pet, or permanent squad member. If they die, the wizard gets a very bad thought. They also suffer a wound like the one that slew their familiar, only less severe. So if their familiar had its arm cut off, the wizard will have a broken arm. Organ damage is downgraded to lesser damage to the body part it attaches to.

Step 4: Establish Wizard starting area and spell availability Biome affects 2nd starting spell selection and some of the spells that can potentially be learned based on the biome(s) of the fortress. So an immigrating wizard from a Forest Biome would arrive with one (or more) Forest Biome spells, but wouldn't be able to learn anymore because your fortress is built in Desert and Mountain biomes. Homegrown wizards do not start with a spell other than their cantrip.

4a - Volcanic Biome -
Burning Hands - (i.e. Flaming Wrestling based on magic skill)
Protection from Fire - (flashes a symbol letting you know he's fire proof)
Transmute Rock to Obsidian* - (would change one unit of rock into one unit of Obsidian. One cast counts as one job.)
Sense Magma - When cast, the Wizard says something cryptic like "I sense a great deal of heat coming from the north." Higher skill would render more precise directions, i.e Northeast, moving the cursor around during the announcement, ect...

4b - Mountain Biome -
Hurl boulder - Wizard creates a large boulder and magically chucks it. Physical based, ranged attack.
Shatter stone - Mines out selected area instantly, amount based on magic skill
Transmute Rock to Crystal* - As above.
Sense [Gold, Silver, Adamantine, Platnium, some exotic metal or stone] - as above.

4c - Forest Biome -
Speak with Animal - Instantly tames a non-hostile, non-mega beast wild animal, with many additional exceptions.
Plant Growth - Sort of like Shatterstone, the Wizard causes one plot (amount of plot based on skill) to instantly become harvestable.
Create Wood - As above.
Angry Plants - Wizard causes 1 to number of tiles near them with grass, plants or tress growing on them to grab creatures moving through them and hold them in place. Strength of grab, number of tiles based on magic skill.

4d - Ocean Biome -
Magic Fishing Pole - The wizard will spend a short amount of time fishing and will largely be successful. They will yank the fish out of the water so hard they will magically go flying all the way to the nearest Fishery.
Purify Water* - The Wizard designates an area of undrinkable water, including vomit and blood-laden waters, that becomes drinkable. Effect is permanent. Volume and area based on skill level.
Transmute Water into [Beer, Wine, Ale, Milk, ect...]* - Only one type, based on Wizard's preference. Affects one bucket of water, more by skill level. (I know, I want to create pools of beer for my dwarves to drink out of....but that would require some additional thinkery)
Water Walk - The Wizard, for a short time, does not consider 7 depth tile to be dangerous terrain and will move through it. This does not mean they can breathe underwater.

4e - Savannah Biome -
Minor Camouflage - The Wizard temporarily gains the Ambusher skill, at a level equal to their skill level /2, round up. 
Gust of Wind - The Wizard can wave their hand to physically knock a single creature (or object?) back one or more tiles. Tiles scales to skill level, and velocity and impacting objects applies.
Transmute Mud to Grass - As above. Includes clay, changing that tile to loam.
That time of Year - The Wizard selects a group of wild or tame animals (hostile or not) with at least one male and female. This group immediately produces a baby. Number of pairs affected increases with level.

4f - Badlands Biome -
Drought - The Wizard can evaporate up to 4/7 of water tile instantly, more as their skill increases. They might apply this ability during clean up, or when water is suspending construction.
Choking Dust - The Wizard creates a 3x3 cloud of dust and dirt which they hurl at something. Any creature inside the cloud behaves as though they have no eyes and they may become stunned. Prolonged exposure to the cloud results in suffocation.
Sense Drinkable Water - As above.
Transmute Mud to Rock* - Includes clay and loam.

4g - Swamp Biome
Sickening Cloud - Miasma cloud. It behaves as one, and can start outside as opposed to regular miasma. Hostiles caught in it take some kind of penalty, perhaps gaining the nausea status. Size and "thickness" of cloud varies by skill level.
Protection from Stink - The Wizard is temporarily immune to bad thoughts generated from miasma. Duration and number of dwarfs affected increases with skill.
Summon Fluffy Wombler - The Wizard creates 1 to Fluffy Womblers on their tile. Number based on skill.
Transmute Wood to Snakes* - As above. May or may not target wooden items.

4h Ice Biome -
Create Warmth* - Kind of like how you can play with fire in Adventure mode, the Wizard becomes a heat source (increased homeothermy) without it causing damage to them. Can melt ice and be applied in other interesting ways. (Wizard smelter?!)
Icy Breath - The Wizard can freeze one tile worth of water up to 7/7, extinguish one tile of fire, or paralyze one creature for a short time. Effects and/or tile size scale to skill. 
Magical Snowman - The Wizard creates a pet snowman which in general does nothing outside of combat. The snowman feels no pain or nausea and does not bleed. In summer and spring the snowman pretty much melts outside immediately. The snowman also melts next to forges and magma, and the Wizard gets a very minor unhappy thought. The snowman create a little puddle of drinkable water when they die.
Deathcicle. The Wizard creates and throws an icicle, which mimics a crossbow bolt. Is especially fatal to fire creatures, but not initially. Effectiveness scales to level.

4i - Jungle Biome -
Summon Predator - The wizard calls a predatory animal from somewhere on the map to their location. If none exist, one will appear at the map edge, based on biome. This doesn't mean they control it, only that it's coming to them. The predator will not behave mindlessly on their way there, and will still run when it's a good idea.
Dispel Rot+* - The Wizard changes the status of a rotten food item (or corpse) to "fresh." This does not make dwarves who gained an unhappy thought from the decay of a loved on or pet happier. (Disease coming soon...)
Jungle Rot+* - The Wizard causes one limb of a creature to become severed when they make a successful wrestling attack. The amount of time this takes to happen decreases with skill level. (Disease coming soon.)
Disorient - The Wizard causes one creature to forget what they were doing or where they were going repeatedly for a few steps. The creature will eventually acquire a new job. (i.e. Goblins will eventually reacquire your dwarves as targets.) This effect ends if they are attacked. Number of creatures affected increases with skill level. 

4j - Desert Biome -
Sandstorm - Wizard throws a techno party. (j/k) Wizard creates a 3x3 tile of stinging sand that affects everyone in it. Causes all creatures to behave as if they have no eyes, and can cause light gray to brown wounds on any and every part of the body that is exposed (unarmored). Can also worsen current wounds up another wound state. Lasts a very short time. Size and duration increases with level.
Sense Drinkable Water Source - As above.
Transmute Sand to Stone* - As above.
Exhaustion - The Wizard causes one target to gain the status "exhausted. Or "winded." Number of targets that can be affected increases with level.

4k - Subterranean Biome -  (Note: Maybe all dwarves have this included in their biome selection list)
Sense Underground River - As above
Transmute Mud to Rock* - As above
Sense the Void - The Void being HFS or a chasm. I know a lot of people probably aren't going to be about that. Since the Wizard would be mid to late game though...I don't know if it would hurt that much.
Sense Metallic Ore - As Above.

4L - Joyful/Mirthful ect... Biome -
Joyful Radiance - The Wizard generates a bubble that grants one moderate happy thought to anyone that walks into it. Short duration. Size and duration increase somewhat with skill level. Goes great at parties.
Soothe Foe - The Wizard causes one sentient, non-mega beast creature to halt in their tracks and do nothing. Number of enemies affected and duration increase somewhat over time.
Rejuvenation - The Wizard instantly heals themselves or another one wound level. The spell cannot mend damage organs or replace severed limbs. Yellow goes to brown, brown to light gray. Number of areas that can be affected increases with skill level.
Create light+ - The Wizard creates natural sunlight in a 3x3 square. Duration and size increases with level. (This spell is terrible!, you might say. It probably would be in this version, but it fits the theme and we know lighting will eventually get more.)

4M - Terrifying/Haunted ect... Biome -
Raise Undead Minion - The Wizard chooses a bone or corpse object and animates it. The creature now acts as the Wizard's pet and will fight to defend them. Dwarves will naturally have different reactions to seeing dead loved ones and pets walking around as the Wizard's slaves. Number of minions allowed increases with skill level.
Aura of Fear - The Wizard generates an aura of terror around them. Everyone within its range will flee from the Wizard. Unsure what tests might be used, but effectiveness scales with skill level.
Cause Madness - The Wizard causes one creature to lose their mind entirely. Hostile and non-hostile alike will either become stark raving, berzerk or melancholy, breaking off combat or attacking their own friends just like dwarves.
 
Summon Homunculus - An upgraded familiar. The Homunculus is a mean little thing, but it grants the Wizard two extra skill levels while alive. The Homunculus will claim items without paying like a legendary dwarf, poop occasionally and eat 2x what a normal dwarf would. If the Homunculus dies, the Wizard gets a moderate happy thought, but still gets hurt.   

Have I missed any? Obviously, this is a basic list I've got more ideas, and I know you do, but this is more to just get a structure going. You could break down even farther by school of magic, spheres, specialization and all that too. 40 spells I think I said? I've cooked up 40 here already. So you get an idea of how varied each Wizard could end up being, or how specialized they might become.

5: Spheres and Schools

I'm leery of suggesting anymore structure, but spheres of influence are clearly in the future of DF and it will make sense for magic to be structured that way. Suffice to say, Biome is just as flexible and applicable as spheres, and schools is just another word for spheres. But they open up all sorts of interesting possibilities for spells like Time spells, mentally affecting spells (mind wipe!), more detailed necromancy, healing, ect..

And on that note, I think Wizards should not choose gods. Spheres should guide their choices, but the path of the Wizard usually runs counter to that of a follower. Couple suggested spheres or spheres that already exist-

Life
Diease (could arguably belong in life, death or both)
Death
Time
The Mind (A catchall for spheres like Torture, Pain)
Spirit
Illusion
Chaos (Decay might perhaps fall under here too)

6: Spell Acquisition

The process would go like this -
Urist McSpellStuff is ruminating. The Wizard sits alone somewhere deep in your fortress, or their room.
Urist McSpellStuff is going to work. Wizard moves towards available library, magical craftshop, ect..
Urist McSpellStuff is researching. (Wizard chooses a spell based on reagents that are available right now. They will not choose spells for which there are no reagents present. Materials must not be foreign to the Fortress. (Unless they've been modified like all economic items. In this way biomes guide spell selection but don't pigeon hole it.)
Urist McSpellStuff is collecting reagents. (If the reagent they had chosen become unavailable, the Wizard returns to researching.)
Urist McSpellStuff beings casting! The Wizard finds an appropriate (or inappropriate!) place to test their new spell.

Failure to cast the spell right means the wizard goes back to ruminating, trying to figure out what they did wrong.

If they're successful and decide to learn another spell, they would ruminate again on the nature of magic and creation, go research ect...Otherwise they fulfill basic tasks (eat, drink, sleep) or "help out." A Wizard's desire to learn, and get more powerful, would be based on personality just like other dwarves' desire to excel and do well.

7: Spell success and failure

When the Wizard succeeds at casting a spell, it's effects go off at the intended target the way the spell reads. Success is skill level, plus personality trait contributions or penalties, versus the "level" of the spell they are trying to cast. Learning functions along the same lines, but is slightly easier to succeed. Successfully casting a new spell grants the Wizard a moderate happy thought, that diminishes to zero the more the spell gets cast.

Failing to learn a spell is the same as failing to cast one (or cast it properly) since you have to cast it to really have learned it. Failing to cast a spell can have many results-
* = rare or reserved for higher level spells
-Fizzle. Wha wha. Makes up a large portion of spell failures.
-Misfire. Spell targets the wrong entity, usually hitting one nearest to the caster's frontal arc, or themselves. 
-Uncontrollable. Pets, clouds, effects, anything that the caster normally would have had control over now acts independently and often with hostility.
-Power surge.* Like uncontrollable, only the strength of the spell is double what it normally would have been. The Wizard stands a chance of having their head start on fire, or just explode.
-Into the void.* The Wizard has looked too deeply into the forbidden depths of creation, and their mind has unraveled as a result. Variable effect, from massive bad thought to instant bezerk or stark raving, mitigated by personality traits (particularly will and self-discipline.)   
-Wild Magic.* Instead of the intended spell, the Wizard casts a 100% random spell, even one they could not possibly, or WOULD not possibly want to know.

All spell failures come with a bad thought for the Wizard of some kind. Tantruming and berzerk Wizards do not fail spell casting (but may have some of the other effects happen.)

8: Casting Known Spells Behavior

The Wizard will cast the spells they know while undertaking other jobs, if they think the application is relevant. If they're eating, they might cast the food/drink creation spells. If they're helping, the task they are helping with will dictate what they try to do. (Including summoning minions to do it.)

How often they are able to cast spells should be a function of strength, in a twist of cruel irony. You want to make strength a relevant stat for a wizard some how, and too much rides on toughness already. Higher level spells are more draining to cast then a cantrip. How often they choose to cast spells should be a function of personality.

9: Gaining Wizardry Experience
Cantrips are worth the least amount when cast, and higher level spells grant more experience than lower level ones. Research also provides a small amount of experience as the Wizard learns more about the nature of magic. I imagine xp values could be at around the same rate as social skills, but Wizard would take much more xp to level than other jobs.

10: Opinions about magic

Reading over my list, I realized that dwarfs will need an opinion about magic. To seeing it used, to having it used on them, they should like or not like it, totally separate from the results the spell has. This will, again, make the choice to use magic more relevant, and can reward those who decide not to fool with it at all in some way.

Ex. "Urist ConservativeHammer was unnerved by magic recently"
"Urist Familyvalues was outraged by magic recently"
"Urist McHippy was delighted by magic recently"
"Urist McBadjudgement was amazed by magic recently"

11: More on Spellbooks

Every spell a wizard knows or learns is recorded in their spellbook. They never voluntarily let it leave their possession. If a wizard is without their spell book (like if you order them to dump it), they will only cast cantrips, and the last higher level spell they cast previously.

Wizards are very, very unhappy when they don't have their spell book, and will try to recover it as a priority unless it is forbidden. If a Wizard tantrums, they temporarily gain access to some lost spells, although not their best ones. If they go berzerk, they gain access to all their spells. 

Spellbooks are a crafted, owned item and the quality of the materials dictates how happy it makes the Wizard when they admire it. A wizard who acquires another wizard's spellbook may choose to replace some of the spells they know with ones in the new spellbook. They will need access to both spellbooks to cast the ones they know for a time.

12: Should casting a known spell require fresh reagents?

I don't think so. Between Spellbook, initial reagents, artifact requests and on, the fortress probably doesn't need another drain on rare, valuable materials.

[BlazingDav]

Can't say I agree on a wizard having a maximum amount of spells they can learn, as some wizards could learn lots of small spells, while some would just learn a few all purpose spells. Also skill dictating a capacity to learn spells of varying complexity is not something I'd agree with, while it should be dangerous to cast spells beyond their comprehension, we shouldn't stop them from having Fun.

1 - Agreed, personality probably demands alot of thought and its own suggestion topic

2 - Don't really agree on requiring a spellbook in order to use spells, or as the only means of recording information, some could just have an exceptional memory, or singing runes (something like that so we can have blind mages), but I'd agree them having many containing a sort of journal with their experience and understanding of magic, their own personal library would be a requirement almost =P (some might never actually learn to write though)

3 - As said before don't really agree with the concept of limits to learning spells, but a distinction of newbie spells and pro spells might make sense (especially if newbie spells are the pre-made ones that might need to exist)

4 - I agree that spells wizards come up with (the ones that would teach spells to others or ones that research) would probably be influenced by the biome they learnt them in, though I'll probably say more in a bit

5 - I like the sphere approach as well, personally I have also thought on how magic would exist in game as a system and made notes (7 pages worth... should really do something with them sometime...), as far as schools go I prefer a concept of magic cultures, that way different magics can be dressed up differently and not have an authoritative school by default, but however it were to be randomly decided.

Specifically one being via some circumstances gains high magic (distinctive magical abilities that others can't work towards in a manner of speaking), this wizard starts with one spell with which he was helped through the circumstances and then expands upon it and creates this magic culture which typically uses spheres like the one he was first taught, then once mastered he learns how to grant apprentices high magic via the same way he got it and the magic culture continues and maybe diverges and changes as different apprentices try different things in their magic careers. (sort of brief, but hopefully more coherent than my notes.

6 - I agree that the creation of spells ought to require special experimentation, though it should also be born of an exceptional circumstance, when a wizard's life is threatened (in more meanings than living and dead), the wizard if skilled enough can gain an exceptional piece of inspiration and save his life with the spell. (e.g. a wizard falling off a cliff, or one you tried dumping into nearly lost to magma, or being surrounded by gobbos, good times)

7 - I agree spells should have the option of failiure, dependant on the wizard's competency of course, I'd say the ones you got are quite good for spells in general, though ones that are characteristic to the spell as well would be fun, could be done via the flipping of a sphere here an effect there and he presto you created HFS instead of that portal gate to the outside world. Though admittedly this depends on how spells would be structured in a raw sense (interesting way to create spells I'll have you know, here is an example of a system i thought of in my notes)

Code: [Select]

[SPELL:SUMMON_UNICORNS]
[NAME:Summon the unicorn guard]
[MAGIC_CULTURE:CULT_OF_THE_BEARDED_UNICORN_BONE_SOCK]
[CAST:SPIRIT_POWER:CHANT:PRAYER:SUPPORT_MINIONS]
[FOCUS:240]
[PRODUCT:0,1,0:0,1,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:1,1,0:1,1,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:-1,1,0:-1,1,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:1,0,0:1,0,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:-1,0,0:-1,0,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:0,-1,0:0,-1,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:1,-1,0:1,-1,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
[PRODUCT:-1,-1,0:-1,-1,10:CASTER:LIGHT:SUMMON:PET;UNICORN]
I'll admit its slightly confusing looking, but actually makes alot of sense for a spell, hopefully the SPELL: and NAME: make sense as to what they denote (raw entry and in game name). MAGIC_CULTURE links it to the magic culture it comes from (for game AI's sake, but doesn't mean someone else couldn't learn it)

[CAST:A:B:C:E:F] Effectively tells the spell, A; how the spell is granted for use, B; how it is to be cast, C; shows what stance the spell ought to be cast in, emotionally or physically, E (guess why i didn't use D); shows what its for. This tells the AI what it is effectively so they can initiate tactics if they were to be familiar with the spell, but also marks to be aimed for when casting the spell, they are not demanded as the be all and end all, but the spell isn't so likely to work out if its imitated by other means (otherwise it may as well be another spell with the same purpose). Not having this is allowed so no penalties occur (but also nothing to gain bonus chance of success by).

[PRODUCT:A:B:C:E:F:G] Is a component of the spell outcome (some more complex than others require more components I thought). A is the target, this can be co-ordinates or a brief tag relevant to a situation, B is the origin of approach, be it a destcriptive tag or co-ordinates (meteors anyone?), C is the spell source providing a bearing for the x,y,z axis i used, or it means the spell can be set down somewhere where it may be triggered like runes (may require an entry within an entry for stuff like traps), E is a sphere that describes the transition and affects the properties of the spell as far as stopping, blocking, doding are concerned, also allows variation from personality to personality, F is the effect, comes with its own properties (could be damage type afterall). G was then my attempt at allowing the effect to be varied further for stuff like summons.

In something like his I would see the spell failing like tags being randomly inverted (where possible), origin and target being swapped (practically backfire in that sense).

8 - Agree with, minus the strength, as fun as it'd be, I put it down to will power and a mental endurance more though a physical strength to handle more complicated spells is probably useful XD (Has imagined beardy wizard of 1000 doing a highland jig, its craftdwarfmanship is par)

9 - Makes sense if a specific skill of wizardry is to be present, though maybe understanding ought to be left to a personality trait (skill can be natural prowess without any real inkling of how you do it)

10 - Agreed

11 - Like the recording, but already stated reasoning for not liking dependance =x

12 - Depends on the magic culture, I figured it ought to be allowed for a more alchemy magic thing, but otherwise agree

[nenjin]

The wizard's spellbook is like the champion's sword. It's the personal item that defines what they do. Also, it's classic RPG/D&D stuff, which doesn't make it a requirement...but I think it still has cool factor. That each spellbook reflects the owner as well is just another way to personalize your wizard...(This spellbook is made from Baby Kobold Bones, Goblin Leather, and encircled with Pixie Bone.)

Plus it's a *cough*fallbackmeleeweapon*cough*

It's possibly it's overdeveloped, but really i'm just borrowing the model for artifacts and giving it a little twist so it relates to a Wizard's spellcasting. Artifact makers would respond the exact same way if something happened to their artifacts. (Just no spells.)

How about this.

What if a wizard's capacity to know spells is represented as a pool of availability. Spell level takes away from that pool. Spellbook quality too could add (or subtract?) from this pool. That way the Wizard could learn many low level spells, many high level spells (a risk taker), or balance it out.

As for caps on the known spells list, a couple points:

-You don't want a wizard to have so many spells that the player never gets a sense of what that Wizard specialized in, or what path they took. They should end up being defined by a handful full of cool spells that you could come to expect seeing.

-Hard numbers are meaningless at this point since this is (more or less) a total fantasy. 10, 12, 20...the # of spells is a testable thing. But I like the idea of better wizards having a higher spell cap.

-You don't want Wizards players can simply train to the heights of ubar spell powah. That's the kind of misuse of magic that ends up, I think, in less fun and more power gaming. DF has a strong element of power gaming, but I think variety is more important than letting people create the ultimate wizard.

-Keeping the total # of known spells lower keeps each wizard more unique, even compared to another Wizard with the same schools/spheres/biomes. You might even be prompted to get two wizards to cover multiple bases.

8 - Agree with, minus the strength, as fun as it'd be, I put it down to will power and a mental endurance more though a physical strength to handle more complicated spells is probably useful XD (Has imagined beardy wizard of 1000 doing a highland jig, its craftdwarfmanship is par)

We don't have a core mental trait like the physical ones though. And personality traits tend to be all over the place when they're generated. How do you abstract mental will and discipline? Make it required that all wizards get that personality trait (with a suitably random score) when they become wizards, or when they're generated?

Misfires. I really love the idea of misfires/uncontrollables changing the way spells work. Imagine if your wizard decides to cast light somewhere, for a decent reason, screws the spell up, and instead of targeting the area he wanted, he centers it on himself. Then he goes walking through your fortress, making everyone erupt in vomit as he walks by.

[BlazingDav]

Misfires. I really love the idea of misfires/uncontrollables changing the way spells work. Imagine if your wizard decides to cast light somewhere, for a decent reason, screws the spell up, and instead of targeting the area he wanted, he centers it on himself. Then he goes walking through your fortress, making everyone erupt in vomit as he walks by.

While they face him.

Also when you said spellbooks could be like artifacts you randomly gave me the idea, why not just let the wizard collect artifacts and use them? I mean you can get all sorts of things from earrings to spears and each wizard attempting to deck themselves out in dwarven artifacts would be cool, (in terms of variety)

Also I can see the point to avoid power players that just have learnt every spell and just haven't specialised, but I can't ignore the fact that if you have the option to learn a spell, but then you can't its sort of irritating and a mechanic to swap out spells (like plasmids in bioshock) does feel a bit silly seeing as they are supposed to have 'learnt' it.

Also if I recall correctly the magic of dwarves is supposed to be more in their artifacts than them being mages (not entirely sure though since there is no concrete stuff I think), the concept of 'buying' a wizard from another civ by promising them stuff such as the artifacts, looking after them in exchange for service would be interesting.

I do think a sort of 'magic families' thing would have its uses for preventing these uber wizards, whilst allowing themselves to expand and create new spells for new challenge, like if each spell that existed within a family followed a rule or shared a property, which could be anything from just being defensive spells to polymorphs.

A question of what stops a wizard from moving from joining another family is hard in a game sense as there could always be wizards willing to play the rogue and sell out their magic secrets to the highest bidder. Maybe if over time if a wizard were to frequently use magic that obeys a specific rule, they would 'tune' to this rule and be unable to disobey when they wanted to learn a new family of magic, meaning even if they learnt all the magic in the world they would only be able to use the stuff that belonged one family, unless a mechanic was put in that resets the brain's preference meaning if  you changed the magic you used you could have some long hike to an oracle or something every time you did it (unless you teleported...)

Who knows the effect of using magic on the brain =P

[Detoxicated]

I can see dwarven wizards learning all spells, but they should be only truly grand at one school and only be able to create new spells for that school...

[Rotten]

Something I would like to see is wizards casting normal spells, but occasionally getting a 'mood' like normal dwarves, where the game would come up with some random, procedurally generated spell, which they would then cast. This could end up as simply making a rock, turning a tree into giant slab of cheese, change a random dwarf into a stone golem or something like that. The game should definitely moderate the damage- some sort of little check so that your moody wizard doesn't drop your fort in a chasm or flood the world with magma, but he/she CAN do somewhat major damage, like killing a few dozen dwarves, or worse, turning them into dragons or something. Killing the wizard while being moody should be possible. the way I imagine it, they would claim an open space, get other dwarves out and start casting, casting would take a season or so in which they don't need to eat/drink. Any time during casting, [v]iewing them would have an option similar to slaughtering on tame animals, which would be attack or something like that. Setting it to yes would make your military run in and kill the wizard, which might cause a small explosion, which would hurl dwarves backwards a few tiles but not hurt them. A wizard who successfully completes the spell (and doesn't kill everyone) would become a MUCH more skilled wizard, to reward the player for the relatively large risk of letting them complete their spell. Also the player would get whatever the wizard created.

Besides moods, wizards would be relatively benign and harmless, casting minor spells that are annoying (vermin spells, small rain clouds, teleporting objects a few tiles, small miasma clouds) as well as some helpful (creating non-deep metals from air, creating random valuable stones, turning vermin into animals like dogs and cows, healing minor wounds) and also, occasionally, more major spells, like casting small tornadoes that throw built objects like beds and unlocked doors around, mutating animals like dogs and cats into either helpful creatures or viscous pests and re-animating dead dwarves (the zombies would wander the catacombs aimlessly, not move up or down stairs and slowly shamble after dwarves, but otherwise wouldnt be to harmful unless they caught a dwarf, but any armed soldier could take one down easily without a scratch. Would mainly be bad only because it would generate unhappy thoughts. Urist McWidow had her dead husband zombified recently)

So yeah, wizards would be random dwarves who would spice up fortress life when it starts to get a bit boring without an automatic 'oh shit wizard kill it kill it kill it oh god no why is he on fire' Fun. Also combat wizards shouldn't be put in, in my opinion, because if you get one he just massacres any sieges he participates in, unless they are made so weak that they're pretty boring.

[nenjin]

Unless his power was so titantically awesome, he killed all the goblin siegers...and all the defenders on the wall. And themselves, probably.

[BlazingDav]

Though wizards that are powerful could just become pretty petty as a result, at least offensive ones, powerful defensive/support ones could probably be quite caring and simply protect your own troops in the heat of battle. Though thats going back to meat shield business =/ Wizards should sort of be independent in nature I admit

"This band of goblins at my door is not worth my might, you see to them" sort of thing

I'd almost say its worthwhile making a list of what wizards and the magic they use shouldn't be, then work out what magic can be around it =P

Like it shoudln't be industrious, lacking in trouble or good points

Going to the mood thing though Rotten, if you killed a wizard every time the mooded to protect your fortress wouldn't it be a bit harsh? I know it makes things challenging, but maybe ques and prompts that things are going bad should occur towards the end, so you don't have to kill a wizard every time, but you've exchanged time within with to solve the problem. Naturally the wizard should have self defenses to make the combat more interesting though and maybe even get to live after failing the spell as a result.

[nenjin]

I also thought it would be cute if wizards were just hard coded not to pull levers, and were capable of teleporting when trapped.

I mean you can get all sorts of things from earrings to spears and each wizard attempting to deck themselves out in dwarven artifacts would be cool, (in terms of variety)

It would be nice to have a use for all those non-combat, non-job artifacts, wouldn't it?

Something I would like to see is wizards casting normal spells, but occasionally getting a 'mood' like normal dwarves, where the game would come up with some random, procedurally generated spell, which they would then cast.

Also very cool. Satisfies the folks who really want procedural magic, keeps it suitably rare, gives the Wizard a Moody behavior that doesn't just produce another useless artifact...I know I would really look forward to Wizard moods then, just to see what happens.

Think of it. Urist Flamingbeard, Legendary Wizard, is taken by a mood and creates a spell which removes all the oxygen from the air. As a master wizard, it affects 10x10 tiles. He misfired and cast it on himself in the King's Court, suffocating himself and 15 other people, including the King, Advisor, some Royal Guard and a handful of Legendaries.

Later in the annals of your realm, Urist Flamingbeard is remembered as having crafted the mega-spell "Sucking Failure."

Also if I recall correctly the magic of dwarves is supposed to be more in their artifacts than them being mages (not entirely sure though since there is no concrete stuff I think), the concept of 'buying' a wizard from another civ by promising them stuff such as the artifacts, looking after them in exchange for service would be interesting.

I swear I'm not trying to whore out my ideas too much, but since you mentioned it....

[darkflagrance]

Going to the mood thing though Rotten, if you killed a wizard every time the mooded to protect your fortress wouldn't it be a bit harsh? I know it makes things challenging, but maybe ques and prompts that things are going bad should occur towards the end, so you don't have to kill a wizard every time, but you've exchanged time within with to solve the problem. Naturally the wizard should have self defenses to make the combat more interesting though and maybe even get to live after failing the spell as a result.

Are you kidding? This is essentially emergent behavior! Witch trials and inquisitions to protect the common good! Persecutions of any and all children born with magical talent for fear that in their minority they might set the booze stockpile on fire!

It sets up tons of organic moral decisions in the game, in the same way we can currently decide whether to accept the oppression of the nobility, or to overthrow them for liberty!

***

With normal spells, I'd be fine with a standard complement of spells mixed with procedural ones, but perhaps they and their effects could be defined in raws at a certain point, and perhaps the player could change in world gen the balance of standardized to procedural/randomized spells.

Also, even if there are standard complements of spells, I suggest their names should be generated somehow, either randomly or based on their sphere associations and effects, so that they are named in the language of whatever civilization you decide to play as.

***

Finally, while most wizards should be weak and of limited capacity, once in a while we should see that magical prodigy who outdueled the high archmage before he was 10. Dealing with such an individual, whether one used his powers to annihilate other nations and conquer the world, or whether he became ethically corrupt and began threatening the security of the fort by conducting dark rituals and summoning demons, should make for excellent fantasy storytelling and immersion, which is the goal of DF.

[nenjin]

That's another possible use (or way to get rid of) a wizard. We know Realm conflict is coming, I imagine sending a wizard with the army would significantly increase their chances of success.

[Voltaggia]

An idea - if your civ has one wizard already, you should be able to send a dwarf as an apprentice (if the wizard doesn't have one already). You would send a message to the wizard via the liaison, and if the wizard accepted, the dwarf you designated as the to-be apprentice would go there with the caravan (along with a number of dwarfbucks specified by wizard. It's not a cheap trade). He would then come back a few years later as a wizard of his own, and could perhaps take apprentices (they would arrive with immigrants and leave once their training is done).

Or, you could make it completely random - you would just get a message "Urist McRichkid has left to become a wizard's apprentice" (we can't have poor dwarves becoming wizards), and he'd come back few years later as "Urist McRichkid has finished his apprenticeship and has become a wizard".  Then he'd take apprentices of his own and so on...

[nenjin]

Could be an option if you don't have the facilities they need at your fortress?