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[Jude]

And if you can't control what you consciously see as true, then you can't control anything at all, and you're hitting the Pascal's wager fly with the total determinism tactical nuke. Observing that we don't know for sure whether God punishes or rewards atheism is far simpler.

Well, saying you can't choose what you believe (especially in terms of abstracts such as whether God exists or not) is different than saying you can't choose ANYTHING including your behaviors. Of course, I DO believe (involuntarily) in total determinism but that's a whole different story, and Pascal's wager is also dumb for a number of other reasons.

[Creaca]

I submit to you that I could set myself up to have a near death experience, then have myself to regularly attend church using the fear of death and the comfort of conformity as a catalyst into changing my belief to Christianity.

In as such, I would have voluntarily  (Although in a roundabout way) changed my beliefs via my own conscious choices.

[Cyx]

Well, saying you can't choose what you believe (especially in terms of abstracts such as whether God exists or not) is different than saying you can't choose ANYTHING including your behaviors. Of course, I DO believe (involuntarily) in total determinism but that's a whole different story, and Pascal's wager is also dumb for a number of other reasons.

My point was precisely that it isn't that different.
The conscious mind is pretty much the first thing you would have control over, if you had control over anything. Faith, as I see it, is only the conscious thought that God exists. Thus, nothing short of total determinism could see faith as something we have no control over.

I mean, it isn't impossible, but I can't really imagine not chosing thoughts while being able to chose something else. What would it be ? Feelings, senses, the world ? How could I chose to buy a coca-cola rather than a pepsi while being forced to pick faith over atheism ? Maybe our definitions of faith are different. Anyway, yeah, I agree with you, I just enjoy clarifying misunderstandings.

[!!dwarf!!]

Back on topic.....

I I know a man who once robbed a bank and when he was in prison sex offenders were treated as the lowest of the low.

now that he's out people don't seem to care. but if he was in for rape, then people would be afraid of him and he would never get a job again IMHO.

Personly, I think that the offender registry should include the details of the crime too, so people could know if it was like harassment or rape or whatever.

[HideousBeing]

Back on topic.....

I I know a man who once robbed a bank and when he was in prison sex offenders were treated as the lowest of the low.

now that he's out people don't seem to care. but if he was in for rape, then people would be afraid of him and he would never get a job again IMHO.

Personly, I think that the offender registry should include the details of the crime too, so people could know if it was like harassment or rape or whatever.

They need different classifications to search for instead of "sex offender". If someone gets charged for public nudity or something then everyone assumes that they raped children. Also if someone has a bad coworker or something who claims harassment... at least people won't think they rape children!

Actually I think the biggest problem is that in America, sex offender = rape children to many people (nancy grace).

[Zangi]

Back on topic.....

I I know a man who once robbed a bank and when he was in prison sex offenders were treated as the lowest of the low.

now that he's out people don't seem to care. but if he was in for rape, then people would be afraid of him and he would never get a job again IMHO.

Personly, I think that the offender registry should include the details of the crime too, so people could know if it was like harassment or rape or whatever.

They need different classifications to search for instead of "sex offender". If someone gets charged for public nudity or something then everyone assumes that they raped children. Also if someone has a bad coworker or something who claims harassment... at least people won't think they rape children!

Actually I think the biggest problem is that in America, sex offender = rape children to many people (nancy grace).

True, that is the immediate thought when ignorant people see Sex Offender.  Everyone on the list, no matter the reason get treated the same as a child rapist. 

Basically, you are finished.  Die in a gutter for what anyone out there cares.  They don't care about how or why you got there.

[smigenboger]

Why would they? Child molestation is a sensational topic. Why turn that into something bland and boring?

For you folks over 30, was this the case back then? Was sexual abuse so sensationalized? I ask this because the actual crime rate will not seriously change, but in the future, there will probably be another hype to take its place

[winner]

if you look at the complaints about the book "Lolita" when it was first published they obviously had different concerns at the time.

[Zangi]

Why would they? Child molestation is a sensational topic. Why turn that into something bland and boring?

For you folks over 30, was this the case back then? Was sexual abuse so sensationalized? I ask this because the actual crime rate will not seriously change, but in the future, there will probably be another hype to take its place

Primary complaint is that people who arn't child rapists or anywhere that bad are considered to be child rapists.  Why put people who don't belong under that category there?

[Muz]

It's a fear thing. You always imagine the worst case scenario. People don't hate child rapists just because they're immoral... people fear them. Rapists are scary because they can hurt half the people you know. Child rapists are scarier, because they hurt people you know who can't defend themselves.

I mean, like when you have a bank robber in your neighborhood, who cares? It's not like he's going to rob me. If you have a "robber" in your neighborhood, you'd be more scared.

[Earthquake Damage]

Rapists are scary because they can hurt half the people you know.

Right.  Because not only are rapists unable to rape anyone of the same sex, but there are also no female rapists anyway.