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Author Topic: Actual Gods in Game  (Read 2801 times)

Detoxicated

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Actual Gods in Game
« on: January 26, 2010, 04:15:37 pm »

Hey guys, i had an idea of having actual gods in game. Their creation starts AFTER races exist. Once they start to believe in them they come to be and start interacting. Once they get more followers they grow more powerful and can grant their followers some help according to their symbol. For instance Vomithammer the Devourer, a dwarven god of Fortresses and war who appears as a dwarven male could grant followers the ability to build faster or stronger walls, while it could also grant his followers an attack bonus when sieging. This could be given per personality, if a dwarf is faithful then he is more likely to get granted a miracle....

This would open more interaction, you could actually now build temples for them, so you could have dwarves pray for help. Which could result in the creation of a new god, if a dwarf is sad or insane enough.

Also you could add a new mood. Faith mood would create items that always praise the god, and it increases the chance to get a miracle from a god in the fortress.

Another thing that would be cool in regard of this, would be that you could get people to follow you in adventure mode, eventually turning you into a god to believe in. You could also meet actual gods in game and fight them, which should obviously be incredibly hard but possible.

If you added a thing as a template, similar to D&D concepts, you could create "angelic" counterparts of animals. Animals or sapient creatures who have some ability of the god.
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Grendus

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 04:55:13 pm »

1. Deities are created at world gen. This isn't Black & White, you don't use mana from sacrifices and worship to effect your fortress. Get used to it.

2. Deities as actual entities is already intended, I believe. I'll wait on Footkerchief to find the bloat, he knows those a hell of a lot better than I do.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 05:35:07 pm »

The general idea of gods manifesting in the world is planned, yeah:

Now, the reason gods are treated like historical figures is so that eventually they can manifest and run around in worlds where they actually exist, but that won't be done until it's done.  There's nothing really preventing it from being the next thing to go in, but that's true of many, many things.

As for gods being created/empowered by belief/worship, that has mostly come up in the context of the regional forces that elves worship.  There aren't concrete dev items on this per se, but it's a central concept in many of Threetoe's stories, especially Forest Befouled.

Anyway, there've been a lot of threads exploring the topic.  Discussion in this thread will be more productive if it builds on the discussions below:

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=29449.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=6077.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5942.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=24069.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=38738.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4629.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=2889.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=31790.0
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Randall Octagonapus

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 05:44:05 pm »

Although I do kind of like the Idea of a religeon based strange mood.
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Safe-Keeper

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 06:03:13 pm »

Urist McDawkins the atheist has arrived!
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Craftling

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 06:18:42 pm »

Urist McHubbard the Scientologist has arrived!
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Morrigi

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 07:04:15 pm »

Urist McHubbard the Scientologist has arrived!

We're all doomed.
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Shade-o

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 01:24:40 am »

I'm not sure if this is in the next version (chances are some measure of it is...) but a furniture building 'Altar' or similar, which you designate a room from would be nice. The more bling in the room, the more opulent the temple is, and the happier the priest(s) are, who take care of the dwarves who go there for advice, prayers, meditation, whatever. It could also act like a hospital, and bedroom for homeless dwarves.

The priests could be nice to the visitors "...and the moral of the story is to be kind to your pet frog" or mean "...and that's why your life is so miserable" or irrelevant "...why oh why did I become a priest?", which could affect personalities in different ways. Maybe even have public sacrifices of captured goblins, or just domestic animals, which would make everyone involved happier.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 06:42:13 pm »

Somewhere along the line I read a post in some thread suggesting dwarven heaven, It would be awesome if someone could help find it.

This could be like HFS except cuddlier, and giving dwarves who enter thoughts like "idiotstick was comforted by the spirit of his wife recently" And having these places be full of things directly related to the god's alignments and spheres. These dead dwarves aren't actually there of course, but it helps their family and friends, who may visit occasionally on their downtime.

I would also say that, just for the sake of making it helpful in any way in-game: They are all linked hypothetically and any spirits could appear in any of them.

Dwarves who aren't faithful enough to their god could visit the HFS, spiritually at least, and finding one could allow your dwarves to commune with their dead jerks, whether this gives them happy thoughts or not, could depend on things like whether they have a shred of sanity. Their family and friends finding them their could become unhappy and start praying more vigorously for forgiveness, maybe if enough pray and offer services/sacrifices things could change, and only for the still sane ones, and until then the bad thoughts are given to their family every time it wears off.

Like in that post, the god and a collection of angels could reside in it's heaven, killing any other races that enter, or the player if you begin to steal too many things (which would replenish because gods are awesome like that) at least without quite a few worshipers in your fort, which may be added to with the discovery of it. You could then build your fortress around it, and make it the primary meeting hall, and use it as your place of retreat if a siege goes badly. Spirits of course are stuck in the heaven (or the HFS, if that's what you've got.) so dwarves can't be visited by them when not in it.
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khantin

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 07:39:13 pm »

Urist McHubbard the Scientologist has arrived!

apply dwarven science (read: magma), problem solved
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Aquillion

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 07:04:40 pm »

1. Deities are created at world gen. This isn't Black & White, you don't use mana from sacrifices and worship to effect your fortress.
What makes you say that?

That's one perfectly valid way for the game to work, eventually, once actual divinities and divine mechanics are in the game.  I assume that there will be some way for people to become deities, since that's such a common mythological trope in the sorts of epic fantasy Dwarf Fortress is based on.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 10:41:12 pm »

Who wouldn't love to have the high priest who thought of the religion to be struck by lightning while praying in the temple?

nenjin

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 04:27:09 am »

Quote
Somewhere along the line I read a post in some thread suggesting dwarven heaven

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Grendus

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2010, 01:15:25 pm »

1. Deities are created at world gen. This isn't Black & White, you don't use mana from sacrifices and worship to effect your fortress.
What makes you say that?

Because his suggestion is a straight rip off of Black and White. Because Black and White is supremely inferior to DF, regardless of how good it was. DF is not about mana, and magic, and spells, and miracles. DF is about a procedurally generated world, representing order inside of chaos. DF is not about controlled spells, about mana or magic that always works, or about +3 obsidian short swords. DF is.

Quote
That's one perfectly valid way for the game to work, eventually, once actual divinities and divine mechanics are in the game.  I assume that there will be some way for people to become deities, since that's such a common mythological trope in the sorts of epic fantasy Dwarf Fortress is based on.

I guess I came down too hard on the deities coming into being post world gen. However, gods being created by dwarves worshiping, or dwarves worshiping to gain an exploitable buff I'm VERY against. Stuff like that is cliche fantasy, something Toady is trying very hard to avoid.
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smjjames

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Re: Actual Gods in Game
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 02:34:00 pm »

Just wait until the next version, the new randomized forgotten beasts and titans will definetly seem like gods.
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