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This only gave grief

3 (6.1%)

Grakelin is not stupid

6 (12.2%)

Are you happier now?

1 (2%)

------ Haiku, the encore -----

17 (34.7%)

Disagreeing, Fine

0 (0%)

Why you make a fuzz 'bout it?

3 (6.1%)

Lets just be happy

19 (38.8%)

Total Members Voted: 48

[Saint]

If someone could advertise and produce the same marketing as a mainstream company and make real games it'd be a godsend.

[Neonivek]

If someone could advertise and produce the same marketing as a mainstream company and make real games it'd be a godsend.

They would go out of buisness.

ALL gaming companies must bow to the might god "Casual Gamers". Damn those gamers to the deserted island!

[Catastrophic lolcats]

They would go out of buisness.

ALL gaming companies must bow to the might god "Casual Gamers". Damn those gamers to the deserted island!

Disagree there.
A lot of developers have had a lot of sucess with going digital only.

Infact I'd be willing to wager that small indie devs have gone out of business more due to their publishers being pillocks rather than a lack of advertising/CASUALGAMERINVASION.

With triple A developers/publishers pumping out a large amount of copy-pasted games it makes sense that some gamers are drifting away from anyone who are published under the big names and are looking for real indie devs.

Online distributors are great for that. Look at the sucess of Steam or GoG and the indie games on those.

[Neonivek]

Even Indie games arn't safe. Often offering classic-esk games that are in the end still dumbed down.

I mean Mario is a very simple game, but it is a very fleshed out game and is solid.

THE Best example of a the difference between a game that is solid within its own gameplay and one that is weak is the difference between Littlebigplanet 1 and 2

The first game is in many ways more fun because all it had was platforming and thus that was all it could do.

The second game used its gimics soo liberally that it made the game seem like just one GIANT tutorial.

they turned it into a sandbox game

It was always a sandbox game silly person.

I'd be willing to wager that small indie devs have gone out of business more due to their publishers being pillocks rather than a lack of advertising

I'd say it is more because most Indie developers are just "gimics" or trying to compete with the kings of the field. I don't want to name any Indie games, as people still like them, but a lot of them are just really average games that throw up indie as not only an excuse to its quality but as a reason to buy it (Though likely because the genres and gametypes they do arn't explored too often)

In otherwords most indie developers go out of buisness for the same reason other companies go out of buisness. They just arn't all that good.

I've noticed a lot more of the free download games are a lot more complex and a lot harder to learn

That is observer bias... A lot of free download games are just as shallow and easy to learn.

The key is that the ones that become popular are the ones that are deep and complex.

[Mindmaker]

ALL gaming companies must bow to the might god "Casual Gamers". Damn those gamers to the deserted island!

Well, The Witcher 2 didn't and the whining about it was just glorious.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

In otherwords most indie developers go out of buisness for the same reason other companies go out of buisness. They just arn't all that good.

Note that I said "rather than". I was implying that it was just between these two factors.

I'm not denying there hasn't been horrible indie games. Infact most of them are just terrible tripe but I was talking about a situation where an indie game was good enough to get a publisher.

[Neonivek]

I was talking about a situation where an indie game was good enough to get a publisher

Ohhh. Well I have no comments on that.

ALL gaming companies must bow to the might god "Casual Gamers". Damn those gamers to the deserted island!

Well, The Witcher 2 didn't and the whining about it was just glorious.

And they shall DIE to satiate the Casual god!

[jc6036]

Soooo. . .I realize that many of you (bah, who am I kidding. All of you) Dont like "mindless FPS games", and I agree with you on COD, whats your stance on Left 4 Dead? The same? It was actually my favorite before I got into roguelikes, and I still play it ocasionally. Thoughts?

[Neonivek]

Well the thing is that I have nothing against games like Call of Duty. They have their place

However it is the same stance I take with Comedies.

It is by virtue of being super saturated that it starts to become annoying.

Also I don't like Left 4 Dead but that is because I just don't like shooters in general and everytime I played I got killed by really nasty means (such as being sniped from a mile away through two sheets of glass and being killed in a way I couldn't be saved)

[Soulwynd]

Please note that the very definition of  a developer that is Indie is that...

Wait for it...

He doesn't have a damn publisher.


If a developer has a publisher, it's not an independent developer anymore. Plain and simple. Please either rephrase or rethink your arguments for the last few posts on Indie devs.

Soooo. . .I realize that many of you (bah, who am I kidding. All of you) Dont like "mindless FPS games", and I agree with you on COD, whats your stance on Left 4 Dead? The same? It was actually my favorite before I got into roguelikes, and I still play it ocasionally. Thoughts?

I don't know. The first one actually got me addicted for a while. But that didn't last too long and I've slowly come to the conclusion that I hated it. I can't really say what I would do different or what I would like fixed on the game, but I think what got on my nerves was trying to do the challenges and being forced to team up with an incompetent AI when I just wanted to play alone.

[jc6036]

I liked the first better than the second, since The characters had much more personality.

[Neonivek]

Please either rephrase or rethink your arguments for the last few posts on Indie devs

Uhh may I remind you Soulwynd that "Indie" is a genre of music.

[Darkmere]

The same trite rehashes keep getting made because they keep selling loads of copies. I look at this the same way I look at most pop music, talent is optional because if you shill a product enough, the market will believe it's "good."

On the other hand, I have no problem with games including plot as a selling point. I enjoyed Mass Effect despite the clunky interface because the character interaction and worldbuilding was above average, in my opinion. I enjoyed ME2 in part because of that, but I also felt the gameplay was more streamlined but still presented plenty of replayability due to party composition and henchmen skills. I guess my response would be, if you don't like roleplaying elements, why would you spend time ranting about an RPG? I don't ragequit Ocarina of Time because it isn't Doom.

On a different topic, I don't understand the short attention spans of most players. According to steam's achievement tracker for Fallout New Vegas, 30% of the people who bought it never reached level 10. That's a pretty hefty investment to just put down and walk away from, from my perspective. I feel compelled to at least finish once if I've paid that much money for something. Honestly, it seems to reward developers for skimping on the endgame (like Xen, apparently. I'm still working through Half-Life). I think the only game I've purchased in relatively recent memory that I couldn't finish once was Shadow of the Colossus, which I found mind-numbingly boring.

Fakedit: Wow, septuple ninja'd.

I wouldn't take the "rawr mindless FPS" generic hate too seriously, we are on forums for a company that does roguelikes after all. I've never played either L4D but they looked fun. My main issue with those kinds of games is I don't have access to a group of friends to play with, and loudmouth kiddies make me want to drill a hole in my head.

[Soulwynd]

Please either rephrase or rethink your arguments for the last few posts on Indie devs

Uhh may I remind you Soulwynd that "Indie" is a genre of music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indie_game_developers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_video_game_development

May I remind you that you are wrong?

Indie is not a genre. It's a short for Independent. It means a band that has no studio backing them. In the case of games, a developer that has no publisher funding their games.

[freeformschooler]

Soooo. . .I realize that many of you (bah, who am I kidding. All of you) Dont like "mindless FPS games", and I agree with you on COD, whats your stance on Left 4 Dead? The same? It was actually my favorite before I got into roguelikes, and I still play it ocasionally. Thoughts?

Oh, I love me a good mindless shooter. Seriously. And I've played roguelikes for a long time. My problem is when a good mindless FPS is worth about $20 or $30 for the quality or the content or both and it gets pushed as a double or triple A $60 game.