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This only gave grief

3 (6.1%)

Grakelin is not stupid

6 (12.2%)

Are you happier now?

1 (2%)

------ Haiku, the encore -----

17 (34.7%)

Disagreeing, Fine

0 (0%)

Why you make a fuzz 'bout it?

3 (6.1%)

Lets just be happy

19 (38.8%)

Total Members Voted: 48

[ductape]

I dont care about the subject of the thread much, I'm just wondering if I should applaud you guys for setting aside the flames and sticking to the subject, perfectly. Kudos to you two (lol)

[Soulwynd]

I would rather have kept the flames going. Thanks to going back to the subject, it's 4am and I'm playing Betrayal at Krondor again and I have to work in 5-6 hours.

[Siquo]

I would rather have kept the flames going. Thanks to going back to the subject, it's 4am and I'm playing Betrayal at Krondor again and I have to work in 5-6 hours.

Hardcore! You go, girl!

Seriously, that's a good list. 1993 was good for music, too, btw.

[Grakelin]

And such a good year for film, with Brandon Lee dying and the Super Mario movie being released!

[Siquo]

Well, it's really too bad about Brandon, and I never saw that SMB movie but if you think it's good, I'll take your word for it.

[Leatra]

Just wanted to say something about DRM issue.

There will always be pirates. It's true there are pirates because they hate companies like Ubisoft but simply, there always will be pirates. In my country, average salary is around 1500 Turkish Liras. There are engineers who get paid only 1000 TRY (Turkish Liras) a month. A new game is around 100 turkish liras and this money can't be spent on games if you don't want to die because of starvation/want to live in a house/etc.

1 TRY = 0.59 USD
1 TRY = 0.42 EUR

So in my country, nobody is going to stop pirating even if devs come into their houses, give them gifts of chocolate, read them poetry. There will always be people like these.

[penguinofhonor]

I don't know what to say about this recent develoent except me losing some respect for Soulwynd.

And are we still discussing the actual topic? Because if so, I see some improvement happening in modern games recently, mostly with the "games are too easy" thing. There's definitely a market for the classic sort of tough as nails platformer like Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV so people will always have that. And for the rest of games, it is difficult but possible to make a game that's easy to play but hard to master, satisfying casual people who just want to chill and more hardcore people who want to be challenged. It's easier to just make an easy game so most people go with that, unfortunately.

[Draco18s]

Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV

Which are not Triple-A titles and therefore exempt from the discussion about Bad Things the Game Industry is doing.

[Empty]

Most commercial games are a disappointing to me.

Most of them are full of fluff and not actual content.
I remember back in the day from the pre 16 bit era till the playstation era that games could entertain for weeks.

But nowadays most games can be finished in barely one week.

[Areyar]

I only know that I'm not buying or pre-ordering anything anymore, I'll first try it out in pirated form.
Then buy it if it actually delivers what is advertised/ is still fun after half a week.

Also EA etal. still owe me several hundred Euros worth of entertainment.
Anyone want to illegally buy a secondhand Spore? Barely used! ;P

[Siquo]

Anyone want to illegally buy a secondhand Spore? Barely used! ;P

QFT. Never again.

[Soulwynd]

Well, it's really too bad about Brandon, and I never saw that SMB movie but if you think it's good, I'll take your word for it.

That's Grakelin, man. He was being sarcastic. At least I hope he was.

So in my country, nobody is going to stop pirating even if devs come into their houses, give them gifts of chocolate, read them poetry. There will always be people like these.

It's the same thing in my country. The publishers wonder why they don't sell over here. I'm sorry, but your game costs 1/5th of the minimum wage. 1/15th to 1/20th if you receive an average salary. It's still a fucking lot. I can eat well for a week with the price they want for a game. If they localized the prices, they would at least receive -something- for what is essentially a product you can copy infinitely with little to no costs.

I don't know what to say about this recent develoent except me losing some respect for Soulwynd.

And are we still discussing the actual topic? Because if so, I see some improvement happening in modern games recently, mostly with the "games are too easy" thing. There's definitely a market for the classic sort of tough as nails platformer like Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV so people will always have that. And for the rest of games, it is difficult but possible to make a game that's easy to play but hard to master, satisfying casual people who just want to chill and more hardcore people who want to be challenged. It's easier to just make an easy game so most people go with that, unfortunately.

Why is that, oh kind penguin? I know, I know, I shouldn't let people slide off so easily, but it was really late at night. It's the first time I've ever had performance issues. I swear. It never happened to me before... Maybe I should buy some of that trollagra I keep receiving spam-mail about.

But it is my topic and yes, we're discussing it. I really don't see this difference between casual and hardcore gamers. I don't believe there's such thing. If I had only one hour a week to play games, I would still rather spend it on something complex, engrossing and preferably fun. To me, whenever a developer say they made their game to attract casual gamers, it's just their way of saying they game a crappy game without actually saying it.

It is, in my view, a rather offensive stance. I don't really know why people put up with it. They're pointing at us saying, "You're too dumb to enjoy a more complicated game... Plus you're busy with your two low paying jobs and that part time job at night. So here's some crack so you can enjoy the in 10 minutes you have of freedom tonight."

At least that's how I feel on that issue. It's pure non-sense.

Most commercial games are a disappointing to me.

Most of them are full of fluff and not actual content.

Yes. I know people disagree with me, but I use Dragon Age and Mass Effect as the perfect example of fluff and no content. I spent hours on them, clicking on multiple-choice dialog options with just a little of gameplay in the background. And that little bit was over simplified and suffered from rabid consolitis.

I'm sorry, but I don't want an interactive audio-book. I want actual gameplay.

The only thing I find worse than that are the infinitely moronic cutscenes from final fantasy games and the stupid grind between them.

I only know that I'm not buying or pre-ordering anything anymore, I'll first try it out in pirated form.
Then buy it if it actually delivers what is advertised/ is still fun after half a week.

That's my normal instance... But I fucked up and preordered a few games last year... Oh boy did that suck....

*kicks homefront on the nads*

[GlyphGryph]

Most of them are full of fluff and not actual content.
I remember back in the day from the pre 16 bit era till the playstation era that games could entertain for weeks.

The majority of games in the past that I truly enjoyed where actually rather short, though many had a lot of replayability. I think the original Portal did better than any of them at this though. It was a game that took three hours to beat, and yet I played it frequently for several months.

I found the Pikmin games lasted me quite a while as well, as did the Rock Band games!

[Vibhor]

Screw the indie community. There was a time when making games was about getting out games that you wanted to play, not about looking better than everyone else. I play games for fun. Not for innovation, not for art, not for whatever technical BS you put in it. For fun.

I have been looking for this kind of paragraph for ages. MOTHER FUCKING YES!! It may be only vaguely similar to what I want to state but FUCK YEAH!!
So, you play video games for fun? Well guess what? You are doing it wrong. No, you have to play video games for entertainment, just like every other form of entertainment. The "FUN" games usually tend to be shit, in fact most of the "FUN" games use tactics like skinner box and what not to keep you attracted to the screen. There is a huge difference in killing a colossus in SotC and mowing down thousands(Exaggeration) of generic dudes in your next gen FPS.  The killing of colossus is frustrating, annoying and sad. See how all those adjectives have almost no semblance to fun? but still there is a sense of satisfaction when you do it, a sense of accomplishment even though you murdered a beast in cold blood. Yes that is not fun, that is entertaining. All the games have to do is to be entertaining, not fun. If every game had to be fun then we wouldn't have killer 7, metal gear solid, silent hill 2. Heck we wouldn't even have SMB(seriously, do you really find jumping on piece of shit and collecting coins to be fun?)

[Neonivek]

Well the reason games are the way they are now is because they know the game formula

Or rather how to make a game that will sell with the least amount of effort.

Problem is that the formula is soo great that it is nearly impossible to sell games without it.

As well since the BIG money is in making videogames for everyone (as they are mainstream now) it means games HAVE to be dumbed down. I didn't mean Streamlined I mean dumbed down.

In otherwords the videogame market no longer supports gamers. It supports casual gamers.