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This only gave grief

3 (6.1%)

Grakelin is not stupid

6 (12.2%)

Are you happier now?

1 (2%)

------ Haiku, the encore -----

17 (34.7%)

Disagreeing, Fine

0 (0%)

Why you make a fuzz 'bout it?

3 (6.1%)

Lets just be happy

19 (38.8%)

Total Members Voted: 48

[Soulwynd]

Unlike Final Fantasy Six, where the game mechanics were perfect and people didn't chatter about useless things all the time.

What you're displaying is distaste for the genre, and that is not a good excuse to say a company sucks for producing it.

Who said anything about FF6 being good? If "Dumbed-down RPG" is a genre then yes, I hate it.

What sort of genres do you guys prefer?

RPG, multiplayer FPS, Rogue-likes, experimental stuff, and simulators.

And yeah, complaining about ME or DA because they're like reading a book is a bit silly. Baldur's Gate had actual books to read in-game. That must make it a terrible game, right?

I think taking the second part of my comment out of the context of the first part much more silly. I said they -focus- on the chatter instead of focus on gameplay to the point it feels more like a book or a movie instead of a game. I didn't say that having chatter is a bad thing, but focusing on it is. Take Daggerfall and your own example, Baldur's Gate. They both had books and chatter, one more than the other, of course, but one was mainly a dungeon crawl and the other had D&D to back it up. (Not that D&D is exactly good, but better than Dragon age's system)

I played DA to the somewhat good finish and wanted to try the bad one, but damn, I don't want to touch that thing again. It's not the sort of game that would make me ever want to go back and play it again. Of course, I've had people argue that's what the publishers want, they don't want games with re-playability so they can simply sell the next one.

Saying that Dragon Age was not fun to play is fine by me (havn't played it yet, but I'm sure I'd probably agree). Problem is that even decent games like Dragon Age get shelled with words that should realy be reserved for Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

Watered-down RPG describes it pretty well, Saying it's pure crap would be too much, because it's not. It's beautiful with some cool plot twists, but doesn't get past being a watered-down RPG, or a WDRPG for short.

People tend to forget that games are things people have worked on. Someone is charging you 40 bucks for the game because they worked long and hard on it.

The devs were paid for it. 40+ bucks is set by the publisher who will be making money out of it for years to come, while the devs had to content with the set payment plus some meager royalties.

I will not buy games with obtrusive DRM, which means Ubisoft will never see my money again. I will also not buy games that aren't worth the money charged for it, in my point of view, which means some devs will get a bad reputation (if enough people feel the same way) and might never make games again. Which is exactly my point. It's called the market. Publishers and developers can whine about it all they want when they're the ones fucking it up and I do want them out of the market. Of course, they wont go down without some screaming, crying, and beating up.

I don't care how hard they worked on it. If I don't like it, they don't get my money.

[Grakelin]

Can you give us an example of an RPG that you like, besides Fallouts 1 and 2 or anything those developers ever made?

[Soulwynd]

Modern ones are kind of hard to quote, but I will try to remember some.

-I liked the TES series, Daggerfall being my fav, but Morrowind is also a good pick.
-Darklands can be good, but has some horrible flaws.
-Realms of Akania 2 - Startrail was near perfect, plus it is often described as an adventuring simulator instead of a rpg. The problem with it would be that you can't really play without a manual, the ingame help isn't so good and you can get easily messed up. I can tell much about the followup as when I bought it, my cd came fuxored up and I couldn't get past some points. That reminds me I should download it somewhere and play it when I have time.
-Future Magic and Hard Nova, very very old school rpg games, but it was fun when I was young.
-Wasteland, while we're talking about oldies. This made my days when I was 12.
-Most of SSI's D&D games, such as Eye of the Beholder, Champions of Krynn, Pool of Radiance, Al-Qadim, Forgotten realms, Menzoberranzan, etc. Yes, there are a -lot- of them and I recommend them all, specially Dark Sun.
-Albion, besides the 3D bits giving me a headache, it was great.
-Jagged Alliance, if it can be considered a RPG, if it can, include X-com. I mean, they're more like strategy/tactics games with RPG elements.
-System Shock 2, shooter with RPG elements if that's allowed in the list too, if so, include Deus Ex. And what makes Deus Ex different from Mass Effect? Well, in Deus Ex your skills made a difference in the sense you could solve things differently based on your skills, in Mass Effect you pretty much just kill everything in the way.
-Arx Fatalis, love & hate relationship with this one.
-Neverwinter Nights, only the first one. The modding and near-by-the-book D&D made it great. I played it for several years online and bought every expansion.

And then we had this 6 years blank without a complex rpgs released. That's ignoring oblivion and fallout 3 of course, not to say they weren't good, but they were simplified compared with their predecessors. I never managed to finish Oblivion as it annoyed me to tears at points and by the point they had mods that fixed those issues, i couldn't touch it anymore. I might some day, but I play daggerfall every other month, so it's kind of hard to not compare both and feel bleh at Oblivion. Fallout 3 suffered from a similar issue but thanks to modding, I've playing it lately and it has been actually fun. It's sort of interesting how it's acceptable to see someone's brains and eyes blown out, but they removed the more mature events from fallout, such as fucking mother, then daughter, then killing their husband/father as a quest.

So there you have it. 6 years without good rpgs, if you ignore the modding community.

[Schilcote]

Buy GMod. 10 bucks (if you have a Source game, if not then buy the Orange Box) gets you literally YEARS of entertainment. Seriously, there's an achievement for spending an entire 365*24*60 minutes in-game.

GMod is a sandbox that had an illegitimate child with LUA.  It's not actually a game.

Okay, so it's an "entertainment software". Same damn thing.

[Soulwynd]

Physics simulators are toys and games.

[Zangi]

Eh, you learn to find the medium between 'critic' reviews, good player reviews, angry player reviews, and what you want/expect out of it... after awhile. 
From there, you can see if there is enough 'win' to bother with it or not...

[Grakelin]

I use this great review site called piratebay.

[Zangi]

-

to bother with it or not...

Fine and dandy if you got high speed... and space...

[Grakelin]

I don't have space either. I usually delete it all.

[Draco18s]

Physics simulators are toys and games.

"Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction."
"If no goals are associated with a plaything, it is a toy. (Crawford notes that by his definition, (a) a toy can become a game element if the player makes up rules, and (b) The Sims  and SimCity are toys, not games.) If it has goals, a plaything is a challenge."

GMod is a toy, one that doesn't interest me, and which has scripted games created inside it, none of which interest me.  Several of them are even still listed as "occasionally buggy."  Read: can crash your game client.

[Soulwynd]

That's up to you.

But creating a rocket propelled, self-guided explosive barrel that attaches balloons on body parts is incredibly fun. Creating radars and guiding systems are nice as well, so is creating hover ships and balloon ships.

I need to reinstall gmod sometime.

[Jreengus]

I don't have the imagination for gmod, after attaching the obligatory jets and chair to a bathtub I get bored. I did once make a giant death fortress once, a cube made from chain fences surrounded by guns on all sides and with buttons to make it hover through the air/fire the guns. And a robot which almost took a single step before something went horribly wrong and it collapsed into a squirming mess if component parts which looked as if they were being sucked into a black hole.

[fenrif]

Spacebuild is my favorite part of Gmod, building a ship, setting up the oxygen and fuel lines, getting it into space and onto another planet... Awesome!

Though I think I'm missing some fundamental building trick, since my ships always seem to vibrate themselves apart when i try to fly them.

[Haspen]

Well, everything than loading screens. When something loads, I just go grab a drink or something. (With exception of Morrowind: that made me @#!$ around for hours.)

Dumbed gameplay, omg... Plague of these days. Before, computers were rare, and to make them 'work', you weren't supposed to be 6 years old kid, but rather someone much older, who knows what to push and what to use to start something. With widespread of consoles, that died.

More dumb people using computer -> more companies making dumb games for dumb people, because dumb people are in majority and thus companies can earn more money.
Remember: They don't make games to entertain you anymore - now they make games to get your money.

Flogging a dead horse: Well, it's much easier CHEAPER to grab older game and make 'Game Name XI-Plus!' that start a new, original thing. Cheaper production - more money for the game making company.

That's why I stick to emulators and still entertain myself with Phantasy Star IV, Mario or similar games.

That's all for now, I will continue my rant later x3

[Grakelin]

Why? Unless you get some new material, you'll still be rehashing what he said in the first post.