Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

This only gave grief

3 (6.1%)

Grakelin is not stupid

6 (12.2%)

Are you happier now?

1 (2%)

------ Haiku, the encore -----

17 (34.7%)

Disagreeing, Fine

0 (0%)

Why you make a fuzz 'bout it?

3 (6.1%)

Lets just be happy

19 (38.8%)

Total Members Voted: 48

[The Architect]

Hmm, now I understand why they do region coding to determine where products can be sold. I still don't agree with it, but I wasn't aware that kind of property and copyright violation was legal anywhere. Shops that publicly provide console modifications?

[Gantolandon]

I still don't agree with it, but I wasn't aware that kind of property and copyright violation was legal anywhere.

Actually modifying consoles isn't considered copyright violation in many countries.

[fenrif]

Hmm, now I understand why they do region coding to determine where products can be sold. I still don't agree with it, but I wasn't aware that kind of property and copyright violation was legal anywhere. Shops that publicly provide console modifications?

There are plenty of shops in the UK that do it too, and probobly in most other countries. As gantolandon said, it's not illegal at all (if it is, it's only because the companies lobbied to have your rights taken away).

Region coding has been around for a while, and i doubt its got as much to do with piracy as it has forcing people to pay what the companies want to charge you in your region.

[Nivim]

 Wow, I haven't messed with sold games for a very long time, but I was under the impression that DRM had failed shortly after it was created...Or is it that it failed but they kept doing it anyway?

[Soulwynd]

Hmm, now I understand why they do region coding to determine where products can be sold. I still don't agree with it, but I wasn't aware that kind of property and copyright violation was legal anywhere. Shops that publicly provide console modifications?

It's not illegal here either. You're allowed to modify, provide modifications, or buy modified electric/electronic stuff. They advertise some of it on tv as well, plus it's near impossible to sell a region coded dvd player here, and if you do buy it, the manufacturer is enforced to provide unblock codes. Of course, selling pirated games is illegal, but there are legal uses, such as running backup games. Plus we do have the right to copy/backup/tape anything for personal use here.

I don't agree with buying pirated software anyway. Instead of paying one jerkoff, you're paying a worse jerkoff. It's pretty common here, sadly. In Rio, right in front of one of the major computer shops, people set stands with pirated games/software, and usually, right next to a cop. I think the major problem is the price here, your average person really cannot afford to buy games and software. Buying two or three means a month worth of food if not more.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Hmmm the Xbox doesn't have DRMs for obvious reasons, but what security measures do they have? Is it as easy to pirate an Xbox game as it is a PC game?

You have to modify the hardware, either with a modchip or by flashing the firmware of the dvdrom, which is a pretty steep barrier for most people I'd imagine, other than that theres no DRM or anything.

And architect, I certainly don't feel the same way, but I don't blame the gamemakers either, I blame publishers. And I also happen to think that piracy is the excuse for DRM, but its probobly got alot more to do with locking customers into specific systems, and forcing them to re-buy products than it has to do with stopping piracy.

As an anti-piracy tool, anyone will agree that DRM is an embrassment at best. Most DRM is cracked within a day. But it is very good at making sure people wont be able to continue to play the same games for years to come. Its very good at crippling resale of games.

As an anti-piracy method it's piss-poor. As a way of controlling how customers use the product, it's alot more usefull.

For some reason I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense.

[Micro102]

I discovered that to when thinking about spores DRM, 3 installs then it's garbage? The game has been cracked? No more need for the installs but they still want to keep the DRM? Noone wants to buy a spore game via online?

"Scam" is written all over that.

[Cthulhu]

Actually it has "Let's not piss off our shareholders by running away from the pirates with our tails tucked between our legs" written all over it.

[The Architect]

I think "We want to make a living and be paid for our work" would be another likely sentiment.

Sure, at some level, in some companies, someone (like the notorious Microsoft) may be thinking "How can we control the market and force prices higher than the appropriate market price?", but the real kicker here is that pirates have no positive ground to stand on anyway. Either their theft is the true reason for this software war, or they are the excuse these (in my opinion likely non-existent) conspiring bastards use to forcefully manipulate the market for selfish gain.

As I said, either way the pirates are nothing but enemies to the average gamer. They're no Robin Hoods or righteous crusaders; the best you could say for them is that they are fuel for the fire.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

theft

That's not only libelous, it's quite fucking simply the wrong term.

This has come up before, in this thread even, hell, I think it might even have been directed at you. As I said then: publishers and devs don't care about theft, because they've already sold it to whomever it was stolen from, whether that's a retail store or an individual. What you're referring to is nothing but unauthorized copying, wherein no one is deprived of anything tangible (unless either party involved is on a bandwidth limit, in which case they may be deprived of money ripped off by their ISP).

As was said by someone else: "calling it 'theft' is no more accurate than calling it 'fraud' or 'negligence', it's just incorrect".


Now, to further explain this extremely simple issue: imagine that little timmy has $50. He goes out and buys a video game. Now he has no money. He goes home and downloads a hundred different modern games off the internet. How much money did the publishers of those games lose because timmy, who had no more money to give them after giving them all his money, obtained from third parties free copies of their software?

Spoiler: Answer (click to show/hide)

They lost abso-fucking-lutely nothing. In fact, they gained $50, or some fraction thereof after retail and production costs are accounted for.

[Siquo]

I discovered that to when thinking about spores DRM, 3 installs then it's garbage?

That's quite accurate. I bought Spore, but only installed it once. My computer has had 2 reinstalls since then, but I don't really feel like installing or playing that game again, anyway 

In the netherlands there's this Unskippable advertisement on Every legal DVD (another reason to get the pirated version...) where you're told that piracy is "like" stealing a car (the precise wording is correct, however, since downloading is legal, only uploading is illegal). It starts with "You wouldn't steal a car". Then I saw this shirt somewhere that made me smile

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@ Pseudonymous: It is theft when the pirates sell their pirated copies. (well, IMHO). Information wants to be free! And most games nowadays suck anyhow so I don't really need to pirate anymore

[fenrif]

I think "We want to make a living and be paid for our work" would be another likely sentiment.

Sure, at some level, in some companies, someone (like the notorious Microsoft) may be thinking "How can we control the market and force prices higher than the appropriate market price?", but the real kicker here is that pirates have no positive ground to stand on anyway. Either their theft is the true reason for this software war, or they are the excuse these (in my opinion likely non-existent) conspiring bastards use to forcefully manipulate the market for selfish gain.

As I said, either way the pirates are nothing but enemies to the average gamer. They're no Robin Hoods or righteous crusaders; the best you could say for them is that they are fuel for the fire.

Pirates aren't any enemy to me. They give me back features and usability the publishers are trying to steal from me.

Right of first sale, unlimited installs, being able to copy my games as many times as i choose, being able to mod any of my hardware any way i see fit. These are all things that are my legal rights, but the publishers want to DRM away. This isn't because they're evil demon spawn, but simply because its more profitable to do this. Why release a game that can be installed and resold as many times as the customer wants, when you can force them to rebuy it every few years, and turn the activation servers off when you release its sequel?

DRM doesn't have much to do with devs getting paid for their work. If it did, then the ones that consciously make the decision to avoid DRM would go out of buisness in a flash, funny how they're still around isn't it?

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I discovered that to when thinking about spores DRM, 3 installs then it's garbage?

That's quite accurate. I bought Spore, but only installed it once. My computer has had 2 reinstalls since then, but I don't really feel like installing or playing that game again, anyway 

In the netherlands there's this Unskippable advertisement on Every legal DVD (another reason to get the pirated version...) where you're told that piracy is "like" stealing a car (the precise wording is correct, however, since downloading is legal, only uploading is illegal). It starts with "You wouldn't steal a car". Then I saw this shirt somewhere that made me smile

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@ Pseudonymous: It is theft when the pirates sell their pirated copies. (well, IMHO). Information wants to be free! And most games nowadays suck anyhow so I don't really need to pirate anymore

You mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

I think "We want to make a living and be paid for our work" would be another likely sentiment.

Sure, at some level, in some companies, someone (like the notorious Microsoft) may be thinking "How can we control the market and force prices higher than the appropriate market price?", but the real kicker here is that pirates have no positive ground to stand on anyway. Either their theft is the true reason for this software war, or they are the excuse these (in my opinion likely non-existent) conspiring bastards use to forcefully manipulate the market for selfish gain.

As I said, either way the pirates are nothing but enemies to the average gamer. They're no Robin Hoods or righteous crusaders; the best you could say for them is that they are fuel for the fire.

Wait wait wait... You don't think that corporations are greedy?  I mean... really?  Any for profit corporation is not about survival, it's about constant growth and expansion.  About gaining constantly greater profits.  That's basically the whole point.

[Siquo]

You mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

I love the IT-crowd, but never seen that before. That is great! 

[Sir Pseudonymous]

@ Pseudonymous: It is theft when the pirates sell their pirated copies.

Except "theft" refers to a very specific action. It's "copyright infringement", and the crime lays entirely in the fact that the individual in question was not authorized by the rightsholders to produce and distribute those copies.

On moral grounds, the fact that they're charging money for the copy does make a world of difference, however. Someone who uploads a file for others to download free is doing good: they are, at their own risk and expense, providing for others free entertainment, meaning their money may be better spent than going to help Bobby Kotick build a house out of pure cocaine, while doing only the most negligible theoretical damage to the market. Someone who sells a bootleg copy is no better than the cokehead executives at the publishers, a parasite who adds no value while taking a cut for himself.