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This only gave grief

3 (6.1%)

Grakelin is not stupid

6 (12.2%)

Are you happier now?

1 (2%)

------ Haiku, the encore -----

17 (34.7%)

Disagreeing, Fine

0 (0%)

Why you make a fuzz 'bout it?

3 (6.1%)

Lets just be happy

19 (38.8%)

Total Members Voted: 48

[The Architect]

Oblivion bored me. I played it for hours, and upped my character way too much on side quests. When I went back to do the main ones they were incredibly unbalanced and clunky. I guess that just killed enough of the fun for me not to finish it. I understand that it's pretty good if you stick to the main plot all the way through without levelling.

I think they did many things poorly in Oblivion. One that comes to mind is the way random enemies level up equipment. It's pretty lame that you can get Daedric by raiding bandit camps.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Oblivion bored me. I played it for hours, and upped my character way too much on side quests. When I went back to do the main ones they were incredibly unbalanced and clunky. I guess that just killed enough of the fun for me not to finish it. I understand that it's pretty good if you stick to the main plot all the way through without levelling.

I think they did many things poorly in Oblivion. One that comes to mind is the way random enemies level up equipment. It's pretty lame that you can get Daedric by raiding bandit camps.

I could literally go on for hours (ok maybe not hours, but probably over an hour) about Oblivion's flaws without having to repeat myself.  I actually managed to finish the main quest and most of the side quests.  I ended up just giving up before I could become the leader of the Thieves' guild.  It was all just so boring, and generic, and badly written, and badly scripted and badly designed, and horrible.  I'm not sure why I even kept playing it as long as I did.  Just so I could be completely justified in hating it I guess.  This game pretty much destroyed my faith in the games industry by itself.

[Sowelu]

Then there's Fable 2, which has come out on XBox Live as a series of "episodes".  And the first one's free, kid.

Then there's Wolfenstein 3D, which has come out on the PC as a series of "episodes".  And the first one's free, kid.

I thought this was problems with modern games :x

[Micro102]

Oblivion bored me. I played it for hours, and upped my character way too much on side quests. When I went back to do the main ones they were incredibly unbalanced and clunky. I guess that just killed enough of the fun for me not to finish it. I understand that it's pretty good if you stick to the main plot all the way through without levelling.

I think they did many things poorly in Oblivion. One that comes to mind is the way random enemies level up equipment. It's pretty lame that you can get Daedric by raiding bandit camps.

1. you can change the difficulty.

2. If you kept bandits with leather armor, it would become extremely boring. One hit killing everything is just annoying. And want to buy something expensive? You can either sell those dozen Deadric pieces of armor, or go kill 1000 bandits and sell those 4000 pieces of armor for the same price.

[The Architect]

Or you could fix the economy to not require ridiculous amounts of cash only available through Daedric armor, or you could provide interesting places and enemies that give a reason for the existance of this supposedly rare equipment. There's no point in pretending that populating everything in the game with lowlife thugs and generating hundreds of pieces of supposedly "rare" equipment in the most mundane locations was the only way to do it. It is silly.

You came across as somewhat patronizing, Micro. There's no need to explain basic math, and the abstract and arbitrary figures you quoted don't help your point.

[Cthulhu]

Or they could've made more human enemies than bandits and marauders.  Maybe the dungeons in the deep wilderness would have scarier monsters, regardless of level, instead of always being tailored to you so there was no feeling of progression.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Oblivion bored me. I played it for hours, and upped my character way too much on side quests. When I went back to do the main ones they were incredibly unbalanced and clunky. I guess that just killed enough of the fun for me not to finish it. I understand that it's pretty good if you stick to the main plot all the way through without levelling.

I think they did many things poorly in Oblivion. One that comes to mind is the way random enemies level up equipment. It's pretty lame that you can get Daedric by raiding bandit camps.

1. you can change the difficulty.

2. If you kept bandits with leather armor, it would become extremely boring. One hit killing everything is just annoying. And want to buy something expensive? You can either sell those dozen Deadric pieces of armor, or go kill 1000 bandits and sell those 4000 pieces of armor for the same price.

This is exactly what's wrong with Oblivion fans.  Nothing can ever be wrong with their beloved game.  Don't like the fact that the game relies on a quest compass to tell you exactly where to get at all times?  Cover up the bottom of your screen with electrical tape!  Problem solved!  Nevermind the fact that all of the quests rely on that for you to have any idea whatsoever where to go!

Don't like the fact that bandits with Daedric armor completely breaks immersion?  But if they didn't get Daedric armor it would be boring because they'd be so easy to kill!  THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO THIS!  OBLIVION IS PERFECT AND FALLOUT 3 IS EVEN BETTER!

[Cthulhu]

Pedantic:  Bandits never got Daedric armor.  They wore light armor, and Daedric is heavy.  Bandits had mithril or glass or something.

The quest compass isn't the worst thing in the world, some of the instructions in Morrowind were very vague and it took a very long time to figure out where I was supposed to be (Find the mine near Caldera and kill the Telvaani agents?  Right on it, bro) but I did notice a distinct disappointment that I wasn't really exploring, just following the blue arrow.

[3]

At least Oblivion has enough potential for modding that many of its problems have been fixed by the community.

Some other games aren't as well-made.

[Micro102]

Your individual points are easily fixed, you need to complain about things that can actually be argued.

If your talking about how EVERYTHING IN THE GAME levels up, including the armor in all the shops, the things NPC's everywhere wear, all based on your level, then I can agree that is stupid (don't think difficulty changes those things).

However complaining that those bandits you fought when you had your rusted sword are not the same and you can't just walk through them like a field of flowers is disregardful.

And yes you can ignore the compass, the quests have plenty of information to do them, but don't expect it to be easy when the guy your getting the quest from has no idea where the enemy is either...


I'm not a fan, i played the game and i liked it and there were a billion things that could be better about it. Your just complaining about things that can be solved with a little imagination or the difficulty bar. (quest to easy? click difficulty bar, move mouse right)

[The Architect]

Or they could've made more human enemies than bandits and marauders.  Maybe the dungeons in the deep wilderness would have scarier monsters, regardless of level, instead of always being tailored to you so there was no feeling of progression.

A perfectly good example of another way to do it. One that would (to me) be much more interesting and viable.

[Dr. Johbson]

Thats the best thing about Bethsoft games, I think, the fact you can mod them to hell and back.

[3]

Your just complaining about things that can be solved with a little imagination or the difficulty bar. (quest to easy? click difficulty bar, move mouse right)

The thing is that the player shouldn't be expected to make their own challenges, not in a formulaic game like in Oblivion. Why do you think the concept of a difficulty curve exists?

Here's another way of putting it: A game is released. A certain item in the game turns out to be hideously overpowered. Your suggestion is that the player takes the reins and simply doesn't use the item. My suggestion is that the developers test their game properly and make sure that everything actually conforms to a standard.

Note that we're not talking about something that can be fixed with a simple patch - such as an item - here. We're talking about fundamental problems with the game's design.

[Micro102]

Is it wrong to allow a person to change how hard the game is? I don't think so.

And when I played the main quest I got up to the town with the church and the scamps and it was just too hard so i went and did some quests to get stronger, which i did.

I enjoyed doing all the quests them coming back with all my new armor and stats and steamrolling everything. I played again and went back a few quests at a time, in which it presented a challenge. I didn't need touch the difficulty bar to enjoy the game.

[The Architect]

Your individual points are easily fixed, you need to complain about things that can actually be argued.

...

However complaining that those bandits you fought when you had your rusted sword are not the same and you can't just walk through them like a field of flowers is disregardful.

...

I'm not a fan, i played the game and i liked it and there were a billion things that could be better about it. Your just complaining about things that can be solved with a little imagination or the difficulty bar. (quest to easy? click difficulty bar, move mouse right)

I don't think we need to continue further with this derail. Micro, you may want to just walk away. You've obviously had experience discussing Oblivion with disgruntled fans and players before, and you're answering complaints no one has brought up here. The complaint is that the overpopulation of the world with piles upon piles of monotonous, boring, basic bandit enemies loaded with increasingly impossibly "rare" and valuable gear makes the game bland and boring. Cranking up the difficulty doesn't relieve blandness and boredom; it just makes battles longer. On top of that, no one has complained about the game being too easy.

It was all just so boring, and generic, and badly written, and badly scripted and badly designed, and horrible.

These are not "individual points that are easily fixed" nor "things that cannot actually be argued". The game was a monumental effort, it had a lot of good elements and features, but in the end the main thing going for it (the sheer massive size) did nothing but exacerbate the problems we've discussed.

The rest of the derail will be spoilered, and I hope others will follow the example or start a new thread if there is more to discuss.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oblivion had a lot of great things going for it. The environment is just beautiful. It really is. At some points the storytelling is very nice, and the supplemental bits like the books with fan fiction were a nice touch. The combat system is decent, but nothing special. It's a little bit hack-and-slash combined with somewhat cumbersome supplemental magic and alchemy that deserved more streamlining and a smoother application overall. The points where Oblivion really fell short have already been amply described. If anyone wants to refute them, I encourage them to actually refute what people are saying here, not whatever generic arguments they have in mind from past discussions.