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This only gave grief

3 (6.1%)

Grakelin is not stupid

6 (12.2%)

Are you happier now?

1 (2%)

------ Haiku, the encore -----

17 (34.7%)

Disagreeing, Fine

0 (0%)

Why you make a fuzz 'bout it?

3 (6.1%)

Lets just be happy

19 (38.8%)

Total Members Voted: 48

[Catastrophic lolcats]

snip

You're of course right by defination and perhaps "small development team/low budget" would have been better here.

I just used indie developers because it has become a blanket term for anyone that doesn't produce triple A games or don't have a large amount of finical backing.
The whole Indie thing gets a bit murky in the video game industry now a days. One could even debate that Valve could be considered Independent.

[Neonivek]

Indie is not a genre

How I wish that was always true.

It is stupid and I wish they would stop doing that... but unfortunately you can go to stores that list "Indie" as a genre, you can go to stations that list "Indie" as a genre, and you get videogames that have "Indie" as a genre (DAMN IT SIMS!").

[Soulwynd]

@Darkmere
Personally, the story should be a bonus to the game, not the main focus. It's alright for the story to drive the game. It's alright for the story to be deep and engrossing. It's alright for the game to even have multiple choice dialogs and give you a fake sense of freedom. I just don't think it's alright when the story overpowers the game play. I don't think it's alright when the game is so focused on story, the game play seems like something the developers forgot about.

I can't give my opinion on ME2, since I haven't played it. The reason I haven't is because ME1 was ... well, everything I've already said about it, so I didn't really want to touch ME2.

@Darkmane & freeformschooler
I also like mindless shooters, but that doesn't really mean they have to be extremely simple and poorly designed. I mean, I like Serious Sam, Doom, Quake, DN3D, etc. I used to play them all and even bought the Serious Sam HD. Even if they had decent level design and required some tactics, in the end they were just reaction based mindless shooters and they did much better than these modern ones.

I have serious hopes for the new Serious Sam tho.

I just used indie developers because it has become a blanket term for anyone that doesn't produce triple A games or don't have a large amount of finical backing.
The whole Indie thing gets a bit murky in the video game industry now a days. One could even debate that Valve could be considered Independent.

Unless Valve has paid other studios to do games, it is an independent developer. If it has backed up other studios, then it's a publisher/developer.

I think you should call them small developers. As an example, Introversion is an actual indie developer.

Indie is not a genre

How I wish that was always true.

It is stupid and I wish they would stop doing that... but unfortunately you can go to stores that list "Indie" as a genre, you can go to stations that list "Indie" as a genre, and you get videogames that have "Indie" as a genre (DAMN IT SIMS!").

Well, that's their own fault for being wrong and misguided. Just because a bunch of people is using a term wrong, doesn't mean we should adopt it. I sure as hell wont accept indie as a genre simply because, ipso facto, as a genre it can be absolutely anything since it describes a band/developer that has no backing.

[Matz05]

DRM all the way.
As if Windows isn't rootkit-and-undocumented-bloatware-laden enough, they think they have free reign to install more... And for what?
A few cases of resale less.
That's the bottom line for them anyway, used games.
 
It's become so bad these days you could say that "virus-laden" pirated games are SAFER to install and run. Not that I DO, mind you, but it wouldn't be tempting if they didn't put such stupid stuff in.
 
No matter what you make me "sign" with EULAs and "click-wrap", I OWN the software I BOUGHT. I am not a licencee, subcontractor, or service user. I will copy, paste, backup, dissasemble, reverse-engineer, modify, circumvent, hack, edit, add to, remove from, modify, bend, fold, mangle, or spindle WHATEVER I PLEASE. The ONLY rights you keep are redistribution and/or profit, and that is only while you are willing to do so. (abandoned works with no owner or distributor are moraly a GOOD THING to reproduce to avoid extinction of a work of art. Floppies aren't forever...)
 
 
 
 
(Oh, and somone mentioned "Christians" on the first page as being straw arguers who will not listen to reason or accept those with other beliefs. While I cannot speak for other sects (most Christians in my area are Catholic), just about all of the Roman Catholic Christians I have met are rather easygoing, tolerant people. I guess you have the misfortune of a lot of nuts in your area.)

[Soulwynd]

It's become so bad these days you could say that "virus-laden" pirated games are SAFER to install and run. Not that I DO, mind you, but it wouldn't be tempting if they didn't put such stupid stuff in.

I've had this computer for 7 years and I haven't gotten a single virus or malware.

But I've had to uninstall securom more times than I can count.

(Oh, and somone mentioned "Christians" on the first page as being straw arguers who will not listen to reason or accept those with other beliefs. While I cannot speak for other sects (most Christians in my area are Catholic), just about all of the Roman Catholic Christians I have met are rather easygoing, tolerant people. I guess you have the misfortune of a lot of nuts in your area.)

Spoiler: Offtopic spoiler, open at your own risk (click to show/hide)

You're lucky. They're nonpracticing christians.

The very commandments state they cannot even bow to other gods [and ideologies in this case]. That if they do, even their 4th generation will be cursed. It also states the only people who will receive good things are the ones who follow his commandment.

Basically, a practicing christian see atheists and other religions as cursed doomed fools. No matter how right we are. Evangelists take one step further and say it's a sin to not try to convert them and save their soul so they are doomed themselves if they don't at least try to.

So yes. You are indeed lucky for not meeting actual christians.

[Draco18s]

Spoiler: Offtopic spoiler, open at your own risk (click to show/hide)

Awesome.

[Matz05]

You don't mean "actual Christians", you mean "Fundementalists".
And while yes, most are what you could call "nonpracticing", I was thinking of the older population that I see going to Church every Sunday.
 
Even the rule against "bowing to other gods" (actually "putting other gods before Me") does not include harassing the followers of such other ideologies. It is just to say that compromise of good principles to serve other goals (power, prestige, etc) is not permitted.
Plus, Jewish people follow the Commandmants and they don't have a reputation as intollerant? Granted, Christianity most differs from Judaism in the tradition of evangelism...
 
There are an awful lot of hypocritical "Christians" out there, aren't there?
 
Maybe most loud, obnoxious hypocrites are Christians, but most Christians are not loud, obnoxious hypocrites.

[Neonivek]

You don't mean "actual Christians", you mean "Fundementalists".

No, that would be who you perceive as a valid target for that kind of criticism.

Which is why the topic needs to change fast, because we have entered the "Religious and religiously atheist bashing" zone.

[Soulwynd]

Awesome.

Yup, it was the comic I thought of when a certain hypocrite douche posted here.

@Matz05

Spoiler: I don't want to derail any further, but (click to show/hide)

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me"

No, it's actually bowing down, along with everything that implies. Including respecting or giving them any sort of honor, like actually listening to them.

Yeah, lets stop with that subject.

[Darkmere]

@Darkmere
Personally, the story should be a bonus to the game, not the main focus. It's alright for the story to drive the game. It's alright for the story to be deep and engrossing. It's alright for the game to even have multiple choice dialogs and give you a fake sense of freedom. I just don't think it's alright when the story overpowers the game play. I don't think it's alright when the game is so focused on story, the game play seems like something the developers forgot about.

I can't give my opinion on ME2, since I haven't played it. The reason I haven't is because ME1 was ... well, everything I've already said about it, so I didn't really want to touch ME2.

I guess what I'm not sure about is the medium you're seeking. What game has the balance of plot and gameplay that you find satisfying? Even at that, it's going to be subjective (which is perfectly acceptable) so your answer won't necessarily apply to other people, which is why debates like this come up in the first place.

Put another way, no amount of rabid ranting about Bioshock being a rip of System Shock 2 is going to suddenly make me decide I didn't enjoy Bioshock. Universal acclaim of Shadow of the Colossus doesn't change the fact that I found it dry, monotonous, and completely unfulfilling.

[SquidgyB]

Hah.

I read the first post, formulated something to say about old games and loading times, then realised it all seemed a little too familiar.

Lo and behold I posted my opinion in this thread 7-8 months ago.

To expand on what I mentioned before - loading times have been and will be with us for a long, long time. thing is it's not like they're getting any longer, there's more of an "ebb and flow" with regards to loading times in that they have a relationship between the complexity of the software running and the speed of the loading medium - storage media gets faster and games get more complex and as one outpips the other (in relative terms) loading times go up and down.

Anyhow, like I also said before, there's no black/white divide, there's plenty to love and plenty to hate with both old and modern games.

But DRM of pretty much any sort can really fuck off.

As for milking old games, it's often down to the rights holders. I'm very much looking forward to the new Carmageddon and Deus Ex, but right there is the looming memory of Deus Ex 2 - a prime example of a game losing its way completely in the sequel.

[Draco18s]

I guess what I'm not sure about is the medium you're seeking. What game has the balance of plot and gameplay that you find satisfying? Even at that, it's going to be subjective (which is perfectly acceptable) so your answer won't necessarily apply to other people, which is why debates like this come up in the first place.

Can we at least agree that Final Fantasy XIII-3b: Part 2 is actually a 50 hour movie and not a game?

[Matz05]

Oh, THAT passage.
 
I recall some commentary on interpretations of that that but never though I would need it, so I didn't remember it.
 
Recall, however, that Jews find that passage even more sacred than Christians do, and they don't behave like that.
 
I think it is just the acessibility of Christianity that attracts all the jerks. Anyone can become Christian, other religions have standards.

[Darkmere]

I guess what I'm not sure about is the medium you're seeking. What game has the balance of plot and gameplay that you find satisfying? Even at that, it's going to be subjective (which is perfectly acceptable) so your answer won't necessarily apply to other people, which is why debates like this come up in the first place.

Can we at least agree that Final Fantasy XIII-3b: Part 2 is actually a 50 hour movie and not a game?

I've ahm... never played FF anything.
The only JRPGs I've played were Golden Sun and Lost Age, which I thought were phenomenal.

[The Scout]

Lack of mass murder.