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[NRN_R_Sumo1]

They will set off your cage traps without being caught, according to the development log.

It seems there are all kinds of ways you can stop gremlins, if you could depend on them to go after certain levers. My trap would probably include a lever and support (for a cave-in dust cloud) surrounded by a channel dropping the creature onto cage traps that are otherwise inaccessible.

Unconscious and stunned creatures trigger traps, after all.

Wouldnt a bridge be easier/safer?

[Martin]

The true proble is that nothing forbids the gremlin to pull that lever a second time, allowing free access to the lever room and causing the end of the world.

I don't think gremlins pull the first lever they encounter, if memory serves, but either way, I wouldn't count on that happening.

But as I noted in my addendum after, the setup is easily modified to require two different levers be pulled by two different individuals to gain access - kind of like the two key launch the nukes setup from movies. This would be virtually impossible for gremlins to do.

The reason I didn't use bars/bridges/etc. is that they don't activate instantly, so there's plenty of time to pull the lever and then escape the trap (unless the trap is very large) among other things leaving the lever inaccessible. Doors and hatches are the only things that trigger instantly. You can't even get off the lever tile before they activate.

It does leave open the problem of fliers, however. I hadn't considered that.

[The Architect]

I don't understand why you quoted me and asked if a bridge would be safer and easier. My design doesn't even have a blocked tile. Do you mean pulling a lever if I see a gremlin in the area of a bridge and think it might cross, then hoping he is on it 100 steps after a dwarf finally pulls the lever?

The answer is no, and no. I don't think that would be easier or safer if we could see gremlins coming. The problem is further complicated by the fact that in the new version, we won't be able to see gremlins coming unless we have a trained guard posted, and if we do that then there's no need to install a complicated trap that allows us to capture gremlins without dedicating dwarves to hunting them down.

If I missed the point then I'm sorry, but one sentence was not much to go on.

[expwnent]

Martin - An observation. Your design is correct, as far as I can tell, but the direction of access alternates each time the control room operator is switched. After the process you described, the next dwarf whose turn it is must enter from the right. Unfortunately, I don't see a way around this. But it's really not that much of a problem.

[Innominate]

You could potentially have a mechanical lock of some sort that only opens if the right levers are pulled - optionally in the right order. For example, imagine you have a 2x2 set of levers, called A, B, C and D in some order.

You have a pump that can be turned off to disallow access entirely, three doors and a pressure plate then a drain (here a floodgate).

Code: [Select]

÷÷╪╪╪^XLevers A and B control the first and second doors, respectively. The third door is connected to a pressure plate elsewhere that has water on it normally that is pumped off when lever C or D is pulled, permanently locking the door until more water is added (by some external lever). The pressure plate in the diagram opens the airlock door (near our levers) and triggers the floodgate - after 100 steps the floodgate will open, draining the liquid (you could also use a pump for this) and closing the door.

The problem with this simplistic setup is that it requires manual resetting: you have to reset the levers to the right state afterwards. You can set up a mechanical toggle system for each one as well, but it would be tedious.

Probabilistically, there is a 1/6 chance a gremlin will open your doors with this 2x2 setup. If you use more complex mechanical logic you can get better odds with just 2 levers (being pulled multiple times). Technically, you could have something as simple as needing to pull a single lever twice, which might bamboozle gremlins (will require testing of course). The only real question is whether designing and eventually implementing the system (which might take dozens of mechanisms and linking) is worth it for any fractional improvement.

[Dorf3000]

Could it be something as simple as a pressure plate that triggers only for dwarves, and not gremlin-sized (or non-citizen) creatures?  Or alternatively, if gremlins can trigger any plate, set it to non-dwarfs and use it to close an emergency hatch?

Of course it wouldn't be overly complicated and likely to fail, so it's not very dwarven.

[andrea]

my personal favorite will be a sealed room with all levers needed. while I build new levers the army guards the door. you can enter the room only by a long corridor of doors, linked to a lever which is inside the control room. Inside, a dwarf and his wife  will live, the levermasters, whose only job is to pull lever when needed ( number may increase if I need many quick levers to be pulled) and there will also be at least 2 guards patrolling the area.. On the ceiling there will be a bridge. in the room above the bridge dwarves will put food and drinks, then after the army declares the area clean in the control room a lever is pulled to drop food and drinks inside.

Should be safe enough against gremlins.

[Heliomance]

Chain war dogs at the entrance?

[andrea]

yes, even safer!

[Chthonic]

You could require that in order for your death machine to work, two levers at opposite ends of the fort need to be pulled (like the nuclear weapon keys in submarine movies ).  That way no single crazy gremlin could set off your trap.

[Heliman]

So how would you get rid of a gremlin that found it's way to the lever? Wouldn't it make it a little unaccessable for the dwarves?

[Time Kitten]

Remember, you'll still need a full walkable path to connect anything to your levers, but as a temperary condition you can close off outer doors and patroll the entrance to your control room.

I like to have a resident communitie in my control room.  Sometimes it's just a single fishery worker, cloning turtles every few seasons to keep his stocks up, maybe brewing a bit every few years, but two or three is better, in case someone dies and no one is left to open up your control pod with preasurised hulls that cause the control pod to deconstruct when it gets a leek.

[Djohaal]

War Dog + Rope

Wouldn't that be a much simpler solution, although not as devious? 

But yeah, considering the damage gremlins can cause I think I'll need to work on my fortress's design for lever control. Specially considering my next fortress will have a doomlever that floods the whole thing with pressurized magma set in the very last floor.

[Time Kitten]

until gremlin #2 unties the rope and the wardog rushes off to the common room to bed for scraps.

[The Architect]

The biggest hindrance to our discussion is that we don't know all that the [MISCHEVIOUS] tag will involve.

According to the information supplied from Toady, it will release creatures from cages, pull levers, and trigger traps without being caught by them. It will also be difficult to detect, and whether you know about its presense at any time will be dependant on its proximity to friendly creatures with some kind of detection skill.

That is the sum of information we have, and if we can take for granted that a gremlin can't walk over the same tile as a guard dog without being killed then we can assume a one-tile entrance to the lever room with a tied dog will be a perfect and complete defense.

But I think we all want to get much more "dwarfy" with our solutions.